The Historical Jesus is real and He rose from the grave

Mmm… A'm I supposed to accept the testimony of people just because they are in the bible? How can I know they ain't lying? Don't have anything more solid? Is all you're evidence testimonial? Am I supposed to accept a testimony of people who lived 2 thousand years ago that I presume had 2 thousand years prejudices? (like racial, and sexual discrimination and believe that the earth was flat for example)How did they knew that it was a work from God and not the Devil? Does Judeo-Christian miracles have a specific attribute that separate them from other religious miracles? Why is the bible only written by it's saints if there are other witnesses, don't those witness have the right to put their names and words in the bible? Wouldn't that give the bible more credit? How can I know that those people witnessed a real miracle and not a well elaborated scheme by the disciples of Christ? How can I trust the eye vision of those witness? Do they have perfect eyesight? Does anyone interrogate the man to see if it was really Jesus and not a man that looked like him? Why none followed him after witnessing a dead person live again? How can I know that after that Jesus went to heaven? Did they saw it fly to heaven or floating?

Revelation777 are you gonna ignore my reply like you did last time?

(April 8, 2014 at 7:21 am)Crossless1 Wrote: Rev, let's try this: In your own words, tell us why you think atheists would find the testimony of the NT to be insufficient for establishing the truth of the claim that Jesus rose from the dead, was divine, etc. I ask because I'm pretty sure you don't get it.

Hi Crossless, Let me just throw this out there for the religious person's consideration.

Adding to your statement: In your own words, tell us why you think atheists would find the testimony of the Islamic texts to be insufficient for establishing the truth of the claim that Mohammed flew to heaven on a winged creature.

In your own words, tell us why you think atheists would find the testimony of the Chronicles Of Narnia to be insufficient for establishing the truth of the claim that Aslan the Lion is real.

Here's my point. I've never seen a body rotting for three days in the grave rise from the dead. I've never seen a man flying on a winged creature.

But,

I've seen lions.

Which of these texts would seem more credible to you?

Once you know scientifically what DNA is there is no way your brain can swallow stories of virgin births. Once you know scientifically what rigor mortis is, there is no way you can swallow dead human flesh magically reconstituting itself.

Considering the scientific ignorance of the time it was written, one can only conclude that the bible is a book of myth reflecting the desires and fantasies of those who wrote it and wanted it to be true.

But it was never true, just like the Egyptians falsely for 3,000 years depicted their magical god/s and superstitions.

Can a cave be a grave or does it imply a hole in the ground?
Ye well if a grave can be a cave he didn't have to rise,
he just had to mosey on out.

(April 8, 2014 at 2:07 am)Cinjin Wrote:

(April 7, 2014 at 11:14 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: When the hardened Roman Centurian witness what He did at the cross two thousand years ago he said, "Certain, this was the Son of God!"

Again - that phrase is taken from the same book that makes the claim of his deity.
With that sort of logic, every religion can argue that they have proof of their deity simply by drawing attention to the witnesses they wrote in for themselves.

You mentioned that we can call you a 'Fool for Christ.' Sadly for you the word fool has a certain happy-go-lucky foppishness to it. The word is rather endearing in a way ... as if to say, "yes he's the town fool, but he's our beloved town fool." You sir are no such thing. You sir, are a blithering idiot.

Can we call you a blithering idiot for christ instead?

As you wish

---

(April 8, 2014 at 2:11 am)Jiggerj Wrote:

(March 28, 2014 at 10:39 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: He appeared to His disciples. These men's lives were changed and God used them to change the world.

And thank god for Jesus and his disciples! Without them there'd still be war today. And cruelty to animals and children. And starvation in impoverished nations. And greed and tyranny and murder and rape and intolerance and honor killings and wife beatings and pedophiles and...?

How did they change the world again?

In the near future, when God removes His true believers from the world, you will then see how civil things become.

If only the fucker would do it.

But he can't. He doesn't exist.

(April 9, 2014 at 11:18 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: I know that the majority of scientists embrace evolution. The point I was making is that there are scientists that embraced intelligent design.

A very small number of them, and all of them for ideological reasons, not scientific ones. See, that's the dirty little secret of intelligent design; it doesn't feel the need to act like science at all, it just wants to be treated with all the credibility of it.

Most science begins with an observation, and then tests to determine more about it, but intelligent design starts with its conclusion and then skips over the testing phase entirely in favor of just finding holes to poke in real science, as if gaps in genuine knowledge makes its nonsense viable by default. There's not a single experiment that has ever been done to verify intelligent design, not a single argument put forth for it that isn't just an attack on evolution, or an argument from ignorance, not even a method of falsification, which is a cornerstone of all science.

When you say there are scientists who embrace intelligent design, all you're saying is that there are scientists who have abandoned their scientific ethics and principles to cling to old stories that feel good, while simultaneously attempting to slop on a veneer of respectability to those same stories. That's not surprising, but you still need to ask yourself why the vast majority of scientists, some of them christian too, accept evolution as true. Why does everyone who knows better than you, disagree with you?

(April 8, 2014 at 11:23 am)DeistPaladin Wrote:

(April 8, 2014 at 11:06 am)pocaracas Wrote: Oh, no, no, no, no... you'd have no free will, then!

Love that argument too. My usual response is to point out that the god of the Bible strangely enough had no problems with overt displays of supernatural events, from booming voices in the sky at Jesus' baptism to angels killing Herod Antipas to people of faith performing miracles.

Did you know that Peter was so cool, he could heal the sick just by walking by? Jesus had to lay on hands. Peter could cast multiple cure spells as a free action at extended ranges. I wish my D&D cleric could do that.

Quote:ACTS 5:15-16 Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.
There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

Yeah, Yahweh was just so subtle in the Babble.

Not sure what point you are trying to make?

---

(April 9, 2014 at 11:17 pm)Minimalist Wrote: If only the fucker would do it.

But he can't. He doesn't exist.

most of the prophesies are yet to come

(April 9, 2014 at 11:18 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: We are in a season of Grace and Faith. God first sent prophets, then His Son, now His church. Soon He returns. Time is short, please repent.

What makes you think that anyone should take this idiotic bullshit seriously? We shouldn't.