(April 14, 2010 at 11:34 am)Minimalist Wrote: Constantine wanted something that most, if not all, citizens of the Empire could find something to relate to. These stories were common at the time and it took little to integrate them into a whole.

I saw a program about Constantine on the History Channel not too long ago. According to the program, Constantine was heading into battle and one of his advisors (who was a Christian) told him that accepting Jesus would allow him to defeat his enemies. Not too long after this something crashed down from the sky (the program assumed it was a meteor). Constantine took this as a sign from "God" that he should accept Jesus. Constantine then converted to Christianity and had all his soldiers paint crosses on their shields. They even painted a picture of Jesus on some cloth and carried it into battle. Supposedly, this so unnerved Constantine's opponents that they fled. This, of course, inspired Constantine to declare Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire.

So.... if not for the happenstance of a meteor crashing, Christianity may very well not exist today. Or, perhaps, it would be a minor religion on par with Mormonism.

I'm always doubtful of this xtian horseshit. Constantine's tutor and advisor was a man named Lucius Caecilius Firmianus Lactantius. He was a xtian and we can only speculate that all these stories about Constantine (who was a thug and a murderer) having some sort of religious experience are meant to create a justification for later xtian power grabs.


Much like the tale of the pope deflecting Attila the Hun from Rome, we have no independent confirmation of any of this.

And xtians were (and remain) terrible liars.

I once saw a program on the O.T. and they asked an interesting question which I think applies here as well. Did the Hebrews rewrite their history to glorify their god and their nation? I think that the xtian church has done the same thing and is only continuing the tradition in the N.T.

Quote:Did the Hebrews rewrite their history to glorify their god and their nation?

There is a neat little book called In Search of Ancient Israel by Philip R. Davies. It's a bit dated now but his main point remains.

We have no evidence of any "jewishness" in Judah prior to the return from the exile.

(April 14, 2010 at 9:26 pm)chatpilot Wrote: Did the Hebrews rewrite their history to glorify their god and their nation?

Gee... do you think people would actually lie (or heavily embellish) stories about their history to glorify themselves? hock:

This makes me think of the story of the Exodus. Some of this story - specifically that part that claims the Hebrews were enslaved by the Egyptians - is pretty much treated as if it's an historical fact. But I was surprised to discover, when I was well into adulthood, that there is NO EVIDENCE this is true. And if this isn't true, then the whole Moses story, including the burning bush, the plagues, Passover, the Ten Commandments, wandering in the desert, etc... is bullshit.

And I must also mention the tale of Hanukkah here. This holiday celebrates, among other things, the "miracle" where one day of oil lasted for eight days. This has to be the LAMEST "miracle" ever! Wow! One day's worth of oil lasted for EIGHT DAYS!?? Oooooooooooohhhh......

Did anyone think of the possibility that they miscalculated how much oil was left? Or perhaps someone found more oil and dumped it in the container without telling anyone? Or that the entire story is simply a tall tale? Nope.... we're running with the "miracle" scenario!

Lol Thor I am aware of the many fallacies involved with the Exodus story. I once posted that if the Egyptian army had truly drowned in the Red Sea then why have we not found one shred of evidence of this? Not one golden chariot wheel Exodus 14:7And he took six hundred chosen chariots, and all the chariots of Egypt, and captains over every one of them. That is alot of chariots and yet there is not a trace of evidence in the Red Sea, also I saw a program a couple of months ago trying to explain this away. And they stated that the Red Sea was a mistranslation of the Sea of Reeds lol. And the tales just keep getting taller as time goes by. In fact there is no historical or archaeological evidence to support that the Hebrews were ever enslaved in Egypt at all despite biblical account of them being captives for 400 years.

G'morning, guys.


CP is right. Not only is there no evidence of any "Hebrews" being enslaved there is precious little evidence of anyone being enslaved in Egypt. Certainly not entire populations. Such slaves as there were seem to be more of the household variety and one imagines that only the wealthiest elite could have afforded them.

Ancient Egypt's building projects seem to have been based on a system of corvee labor where citizens are expected to provide work for the government for a certain portion of the year. They were not slaves. They were paid in food or beer (not a bad deal) as coins had not been invented.

Rather than Herodotus' gang of 100,000 slaves building the pyramid in 20 years, Zahi Hawass suggests that a permanent force of perhaps 8,000 craftsmen were augmented by 20,000 laborers during the annual Nile Flood period when they couldn't work in the fields anyway.

The idea of mass slavery of an entire population is one of those anachronisms which lead scholars to believe that these stories were written (or at least finalized) during the Hellenistic period when such mass slavery was actually practiced.

Like I always say the bible is a mix of fiction with few historical facts woven into the narrative to try and give these fairy tales some sort of point of reference or authenticity.

(April 15, 2010 at 6:15 pm)chatpilot Wrote: Like I always say the bible is a mix of fiction with few historical facts woven into the narrative to try and give these fairy tales some sort of point of reference or authenticity.

And believers point to the factual things in the Bible (such as real places) and insist that this proves the Bible is true! I always counter with something like, "Yeah, then you must believe everything in "Gone With the Wind" is true because there really was a Civil War."

Arguing with some believers is like talking to a rock and expecting a response. The fundies are the worst of the lot, they are so brain washed that nothing in this world makes sense unless it has their god or their savior inscribed in it somewhere. Their arguments for god are similar to a child's argument that the tooth fairy came to see them last night.