(April 13, 2014 at 4:14 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote:

(April 13, 2014 at 3:40 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Where did you get that definition of sin? If you don't believe in a God, then how can you define morality? Who defines what is right or wrong?

You haven't actually learned anything since coming here at all, have you?

Otherwise, how can you reset to "without God there is no morality"?

What is your support for this assertion? Why do you believe morality requires a parental figure for rational people to behave morally?

Why do most serial killers have faith in God, and why with their knowledge of God is does morality seem not to exist?

Gary Ridgeway, Pentecostal Christian, murdered 60 women.

Pedro Alonzo Lopez, Christian, murdered and occasionally raped more than 350 children.

Jeffrey Dahmer, at least 17 victims, Christian.

John Wayne Gacy, raped and murdered more than 33 children.

Albert Fish, Christian, beaten at St. John's orphanage before going on to murder and cannibalize multiple children.

Ted Bundy, Mormon. 36 or more victims.

Who decides what is right or wrong? What if a person feels it is perfectly ok to kill someone and claims he is going by "survival of the fittest?" What if I go around claiming I'm an atheist, does that make me an atheist? And if I then say or do things contradictory of an atheist does that mean all atheists have a bad rep? Hitler said he was a Christian, but his actions and life say otherwise.

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(April 13, 2014 at 3:11 pm)Mothonis_Cathicgal Wrote:

(April 13, 2014 at 3:02 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: God will never be out of style.

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I still like you.

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Let's see how things go. I want to explore a variety of resources. If you are not interested in responding to the threads I understand.

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I am willing to pay for your tickets if you are willing to go see it.

I saw the trailer for it and spotted several fallacys with it.Second how would you send the money,is Jesus going to deliver it?

I could mail it or perhaps paypal it

(April 13, 2014 at 9:17 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

(April 13, 2014 at 2:39 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: I find it interesting how atheists are quick to judge the Bible but few have read it objectively from cover to cover. Christian movies the same. If you really don't want to believe something, Jesus appearing before you may not convince you.

And I find it interesting how Christians vehemently try to avoid actually learning what the atheist argument is, and instead choose to attack and revel in the strawmen put forth by their deluded brothers-in-Christ.

To each his own.

The thing is, many atheists, particularly former believers, like myself, have read the whole bible objectively, which helped us become atheists. The believers generally read it through their god glasses, and usually not the whole thing - just the sections they agree with and think should apply to them.

Rampant Jeffrey Dahmer actually turned christian in prison. But it doesn't matter. Even if all serial killers in the world were atheists or christians it has ZERO impact on if god exists or not.

(April 13, 2014 at 9:25 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Who decides what is right or wrong?

Reality, and the predictable reactions human beings have to stimuli.

Quote: What if a person feels it is perfectly ok to kill someone and claims he is going by "survival of the fittest?"

Then he would be drastically unclear on what survival of the fittest means as a concept. So are you, I'd say; "fittest" doesn't mean "strongest," it means "most embodying the traits most conducive to survival." It's "fittest for survival," not "physically fittest." Human survival has always depended on our ability to cooperate and cultivate societies, and so anyone murdering on behalf of survival of the fittest is just factually wrong, unless they're a shark or something.

Quote: What if I go around claiming I'm an atheist, does that make me an atheist?

No, your beliefs dictate whether you're an atheist, not your claims. Ditto theism.

Quote: And if I then say or do things contradictory of an atheist does that mean all atheists have a bad rep? Hitler said he was a Christian, but his actions and life say otherwise.

Look, I hear this all the time, and it's no less true from you than it is from anyone else; christianity is a position of beliefs, not actions. If I checked off everything you thought made a good christian but didn't believe in god, would that make me a christian? No, it wouldn't, because christianity's baseline premise involves belief, and not a set of actions.

Your kind keeps saying that Hitler wasn't a christian, but you're wrong; if you had any interest in honestly portraying what your religion is, you'd just say he was bad at being a christian, instead of watering down your own position.

(April 13, 2014 at 9:25 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Who decides what is right or wrong? What if a person feels it is perfectly ok to kill someone and claims he is going by "survival of the fittest?" What if I go around claiming I'm an atheist, does that make me an atheist? And if I then say or do things contradictory of an atheist does that mean all atheists have a bad rep? Hitler said he was a Christian, but his actions and life say otherwise.

This will be my first direct rebuttal to you that is meant in all seriousness. You are consistently mischaracterizing evolution and what it entails. Please, please, please educate yourself. To continue is to be intentionally dishonest, and I'm sure that is on the list of 'no-nos' your god prescribes.

'Survival of the Fittest' does not just mean the strongest or the biggest bully. It also means the organism that best excels inside its species' social constructs, the smartest, the quickest, the most agile---likely some combination of these superlatives.

Why do you insist on being so dense?

Quote:Reality, and the predictable reactions human beings have to stimuli.

Actually people decide what's right and wrong. Reality has no values.

Quote:What if a person feels it is perfectly ok to kill someone and claims he is going by "survival of the fittest?

Killers are not best fit for procreation.

Quote:Hitler said he was a Christian, but his actions and life say otherwise.

Define christian.

(March 27, 2014 at 11:01 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Dear Friends,
If you can read this posting then God is still offering you an opportunity to receive His Son the Lord Jesus. Repent and turn from your sins before it is too late. Jesus paid a great price on the cross so that we can be saved. Don't reject this wonderful gift. You will not regret making Him your Lord and Savior.
Blessings,
Rev777

Jesus Christ never existed. I wish Christians would just admit this. Have you ever seen the documentary, the God That Never Existed? Most Christians are totally unaware that Jesus Christ is nothing more than a politically-motivated fictional character that Constantine and the Council of Nicea stole from the ancient Egyptians. The conception story of Mary and Jesus was stolen verbatim from the Temple of Luxor. Research this and find out.

There are also no historical sources proving Jesus ever lived. Historians have proven numerous times that the Gospels were entirely forged, and so was Josephus's tiny little paragraph about Jesus Christ in his work. Justin Martyr never mentions any of the Gospels in any of his work.

You are living proof that Christianity, from the Council of Nicea to the Spanish Inquisition to the present-day Dominionist movement, is the greatest fraud of the century.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZgT1SRc...7&index=70

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy8E1Ltk...5_gSByMyr7

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSDXgT2Q...5_gSByMyr7

(April 13, 2014 at 9:36 pm)tor Wrote:

Quote:Reality, and the predictable reactions human beings have to stimuli.

Actually people decide what's right and wrong. Reality has no values.

True enough, but what I was getting at is that the morality we make for ourselves is informed by reality and our reactions to it. We know that fire burns us, that burning feels unpleasant and harms us, and so there's no society on earth that deems throwing people into fires a moral good.

(April 13, 2014 at 4:21 pm)Esquilax Wrote:

(April 13, 2014 at 3:57 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Dear Esquilax,
I can find that post where you gave me a link. Can you private message me that link?
Thanks

Which link are you referring to? I can't recall even making mention of a link to you lately.

Quote:P.S. - I have faith that the standards and rules that a most righteous God has established that if I obey them then I will be moral.

That's... problematic on its own, but I think you missed my point, so let me rephrase: if god were to change those standards and rules of his tomorrow, if he were to come down from heaven to you personally and say that for you, killing indiscriminately is now not only moral, but actually demanded, would that make it moral, and more importantly, would you do it?

Please don't dodge the way most others we ask this question to would, and say that god wouldn't do that, or that you would assume you'd had a hallucination rather than thinking it was really god. For the purposes of this hypothetical, you know, demonstrably, that it was god, and that he did indeed give those orders. How would you answer?

Firstly, it seems like you are getting into the habit of either asking a question and then put parameters around how we can respond to them. I don't think that is fair. Secondly, you are trying to ask a hypothetical with what intention, to trap me? They did the same to Jesus. I am not going to answer this one.

(April 13, 2014 at 9:43 pm)Revelation777 Wrote:

(April 13, 2014 at 4:21 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Which link are you referring to? I can't recall even making mention of a link to you lately.


That's... problematic on its own, but I think you missed my point, so let me rephrase: if god were to change those standards and rules of his tomorrow, if he were to come down from heaven to you personally and say that for you, killing indiscriminately is now not only moral, but actually demanded, would that make it moral, and more importantly, would you do it?

Please don't dodge the way most others we ask this question to would, and say that god wouldn't do that, or that you would assume you'd had a hallucination rather than thinking it was really god. For the purposes of this hypothetical, you know, demonstrably, that it was god, and that he did indeed give those orders. How would you answer?

Firstly, it seems like you are getting into the habit of either asking a question and then put parameters around how we can respond to them. I don't think that is fair. Secondly, you are trying to ask a hypothetical with what intention, to trap me? They did the same to Jesus. I am not going to answer this one.

He is talking about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma