(April 13, 2014 at 9:42 pm)Esquilax Wrote:

(April 13, 2014 at 9:36 pm)tor Wrote: Actually people decide what's right and wrong. Reality has no values.

True enough, but what I was getting at is that the morality we make for ourselves is informed by reality and our reactions to it. We know that fire burns us, that burning feels unpleasant and harms us, and so there's no society on earth that deems throwing people into fires a moral good.

I don't any of us enjoy being hungry and it is clear knowledge that there are thousands of child who starve to death each day. Yet, why are there not enough people doing something about this to eradicate world hunger?

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(April 13, 2014 at 9:34 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote:

(April 13, 2014 at 9:25 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Who decides what is right or wrong? What if a person feels it is perfectly ok to kill someone and claims he is going by "survival of the fittest?" What if I go around claiming I'm an atheist, does that make me an atheist? And if I then say or do things contradictory of an atheist does that mean all atheists have a bad rep? Hitler said he was a Christian, but his actions and life say otherwise.

This will be my first direct rebuttal to you that is meant in all seriousness. You are consistently mischaracterizing evolution and what it entails. Please, please, please educate yourself. To continue is to be intentionally dishonest, and I'm sure that is on the list of 'no-nos' your god prescribes.

'Survival of the Fittest' does not just mean the strongest or the biggest bully. It also means the organism that best excels inside its species' social constructs, the smartest, the quickest, the most agile---likely some combination of these superlatives.

Why do you insist on being so dense?

I appreciated your response until you had to end it with an insult. Oh well.

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(April 13, 2014 at 9:47 pm)Revelation777 Wrote:

(April 13, 2014 at 9:42 pm)Esquilax Wrote: True enough, but what I was getting at is that the morality we make for ourselves is informed by reality and our reactions to it. We know that fire burns us, that burning feels unpleasant and harms us, and so there's no society on earth that deems throwing people into fires a moral good.

I don't any of us enjoy being hungry and it is clear knowledge that there are thousands of child who starve to death each day. Yet, why are there not enough people doing something about this to eradicate world hunger?

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(April 13, 2014 at 9:34 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: This will be my first direct rebuttal to you that is meant in all seriousness. You are consistently mischaracterizing evolution and what it entails. Please, please, please educate yourself. To continue is to be intentionally dishonest, and I'm sure that is on the list of 'no-nos' your god prescribes.

'Survival of the Fittest' does not just mean the strongest or the biggest bully. It also means the organism that best excels inside its species' social constructs, the smartest, the quickest, the most agile---likely some combination of these superlatives.

Why do you insist on being so dense?

I appreciated your response until you had to end it with an insult. Oh well.

If that be the case how come after millions of years for our dna and genes to evolve that humans still are susceptible to disease, mental illness, and mental retardation?

(April 13, 2014 at 9:42 pm)Esquilax Wrote:

(April 13, 2014 at 9:36 pm)tor Wrote: Actually people decide what's right and wrong. Reality has no values.

True enough, but what I was getting at is that the morality we make for ourselves is informed by reality and our reactions to it. We know that fire burns us, that burning feels unpleasant and harms us, and so there's no society on earth that deems throwing people into fires a moral good.

There were plenty of societies that burned people alive.
I was looking for objective grounding for morals for years now but I could never find it. Action can be objectively best for the certain set of values but values themselves are preferences which are subjective. For instance a person has opinion that burning people is good and my opinion is different. I will try to prevent him from burning people but it's just because I have different opinion. 1000 years ago many people had opinion that burning witches is cool and women were burned and everyone thought it was fine.
Besides the people feel burning if they are getting burned not if they burn other people

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Revelation777 Wrote:I don't any of us enjoy being hungry and it is clear knowledge that there are thousands of child who starve to death each day. Yet, why are there not enough people doing something about this to eradicate world hunger?

And how do you suggest we will do that?

Quote:I don't any of us enjoy being hungry and it is clear knowledge that there are thousands of child who starve to death each day. Yet, why are there not enough people doing something about this to eradicate world hunger?

Why doesn't your fucking god do something? You know, make it rain like it was supposed to so they can grow their own food. Or is that asking to much of him?

(April 13, 2014 at 10:20 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:I don't any of us enjoy being hungry and it is clear knowledge that there are thousands of child who starve to death each day. Yet, why are there not enough people doing something about this to eradicate world hunger?

Why doesn't your fucking god do something? You know, make it rain like it was supposed to so they can grow their own food. Or is that asking to much of him?

Jesus can appear on their toast.

Isn't that enough?

(April 13, 2014 at 10:20 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:I don't any of us enjoy being hungry and it is clear knowledge that there are thousands of child who starve to death each day. Yet, why are there not enough people doing something about this to eradicate world hunger?

Why doesn't your fucking god do something? You know, make it rain like it was supposed to so they can grow their own food. Or is that asking to much of him?

Very good point. God could eradicate world hunger with no effort in less than 1 nanosecond. He is omnipotent after all. We are back to the problem of evil. For a millionth time.

(April 13, 2014 at 10:20 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:I don't any of us enjoy being hungry and it is clear knowledge that there are thousands of child who starve to death each day. Yet, why are there not enough people doing something about this to eradicate world hunger?

Why doesn't your fucking god do something? You know, make it rain like it was supposed to so they can grow their own food. Or is that asking to much of him?

Are you blaming God? I thought you don't believe in Him?

(April 13, 2014 at 10:20 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:I don't any of us enjoy being hungry and it is clear knowledge that there are thousands of child who starve to death each day. Yet, why are there not enough people doing something about this to eradicate world hunger?

Why doesn't your fucking god do something? You know, make it rain like it was supposed to so they can grow their own food. Or is that asking to much of him?

Way too much, he's playing Dark Souls right now. Not even god can pause that game.

(April 13, 2014 at 9:31 pm)tor Wrote: Rampant Jeffrey Dahmer actually turned christian in prison. But it doesn't matter. Even if all serial killers in the world were atheists or christians it has ZERO impact on if god exists or not.

Then Jeffrey went to heaven when he died.

(April 13, 2014 at 10:24 pm)Revelation777 Wrote:

(April 13, 2014 at 10:20 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Why doesn't your fucking god do something? You know, make it rain like it was supposed to so they can grow their own food. Or is that asking to much of him?

Are you blaming God? I thought you don't believe in Him?

Are you so stupid that you can't grasp basic conversation? Honestly now.

(April 13, 2014 at 4:51 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(April 13, 2014 at 4:36 pm)Beccs Wrote: Some excruciating pain, death for a few days, and then becomes emperor of the universe.

Hardly a great price.

A "great price" would be not existing before you are born, then dying on a beach in France fighting fascism without the expectation of personal fame or ass kissing, dying on that beach and never coming back or becoming famous.

Jesus is a man/God so according to them he was around for eternity prior to his human form, is only in physical pain for a few hours, then goes right back to being a God without staying dead. That seems more like a pin prick, a slight inconvenience. And on top of not being a sacrifice why does he do it? For his own self glorification. Hardly selfless and completely narcissistic.

Before the cross Jesus was still glorious and worthy of praise and woship just for being God and Creator.

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(April 13, 2014 at 10:23 pm)tor Wrote:

(April 13, 2014 at 10:20 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Why doesn't your fucking god do something? You know, make it rain like it was supposed to so they can grow their own food. Or is that asking to much of him?

Very good point. God could eradicate world hunger with no effort in less than 1 nanosecond. He is omnipotent after all. We are back to the problem of evil. For a millionth time.

He gave free willed humans plenty on His planet so that no one starves.

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(April 13, 2014 at 9:28 pm)Beccs Wrote:

(April 13, 2014 at 9:17 pm)Faith No More Wrote: And I find it interesting how Christians vehemently try to avoid actually learning what the atheist argument is, and instead choose to attack and revel in the strawmen put forth by their deluded brothers-in-Christ.

To each his own.

The thing is, many atheists, particularly former believers, like myself, have read the whole bible objectively, which helped us become atheists. The believers generally read it through their god glasses, and usually not the whole thing - just the sections they agree with and think should apply to them.

There have been several people who went out to disprove the Bible and landed up becoming fervent believers.