(May 8, 2014 at 12:36 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:

(May 5, 2014 at 2:01 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: ...That Santa will come down the chimney, and give them the present of eternal life, but only if they spend every day devoted to his Eight Holy Reindeer, and the Sacrement of The Rosy Cheeks and Bowl Full Of Jelly prayer.

So what is the hope in your heart?

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(May 8, 2014 at 12:33 pm)Lek Wrote: What you just said shows that you don't think. You ignored what I said and then went on to tell me what I want. And why do you say that I don't understand simple scientific principles?

To me Rampant seems to need to feel intellectually superior to believers. He very rarely gives serious replies.

When I do, you don't read them. You go into a two-page ontological rambling, disjointed post, that usually concludes "God exists," because you seem to have the need to feel intellectually superior to nonbelievers for believing in an invisible sky deity with no evidence of it's existence.

It's been explained to you repeatedly why ontological arguments and arguments from necessity beg the question, yet you continue to use them.

You presuppose something is true because you presuppose its' truth, and ignore objections.

What part of that is worthy of serious reply?

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(May 8, 2014 at 12:33 pm)Lek Wrote:

(May 8, 2014 at 12:24 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: Your lack of understanding simple scientific principles is evidence enough you don't want to think, and want to be a sheep who is told what to do, how to think, and never critically examine what you're told.

What you just said shows that you don't think. You ignored what I said and then went on to tell me what I want. And why do you say that I don't understand simple scientific principles?

Lek Wrote:It is a story. There's true stories and there's untrue stories. I don't refuse to believe in something because I believe the main character is a monster. I think Putin is butthead, but I still believe he exists. By the way, scientists told me there were nine planets in the solar system and now they tell me there's only eight. Why can't they be consistent? I can't accept science anymore because they're always changing their minds. Scientists have been wrong more times that I can count. Next thing you know they'll tell me that bloodletting treatments can be harmful.

You don't even understand the basics of the scientific method.

(May 8, 2014 at 12:10 pm)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote:

(May 8, 2014 at 12:01 pm)Lek Wrote: Serving God doesn't mean we are puppets or don't think.

If 'free will' is the ability to sin, then yes, it means you are, or are trying to be, a puppet who just does what it is told without question or thought, though however occasionally, you glitch, leading you to express your free will and do things that are self-serving.

I really love that emphasis on 'self-serving' being a pejorative, by the way. It's a hallmark trait of a chronic abuse victim.

I'm using it because I mean it. If you live only to serve yourself, then you don't have any desire to help others in a way that would cause yourself to suffer. I see self-serving people as being selfish people. The fact that we might do something for ourselves doesn't make us self-serving, but it's when that becomes the focus of our lives. The focus of a christian's life is serving God and, in following his teachings we also serve others. Loving God also means loving others.

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(May 8, 2014 at 12:54 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: It is a story. There's true stories and there's untrue stories. I don't refuse to believe in something because I believe the main character is a monster. I think Putin is butthead, but I still believe he exists. By the way, scientists told me there were nine planets in the solar system and now they tell me there's only eight. Why can't they be consistent? I can't accept science anymore because they're always changing their minds. Scientists have been wrong more times that I can count. Next thing you know they'll tell me that bloodletting treatments can be harmful.

You don't even understand the basics of the scientific method.

I was just pointing out that what we believe from science changes all the time. It doesn't have anything to do with my understanding of the scientific method.

(May 8, 2014 at 2:26 pm)Lek Wrote: The focus of a christian's life is serving God and, in following his teachings we also serve others. Loving God also means loving others.

False.

In following god, theists have always caused more harm than good, because they are under the mistaken impression that their religious guidance is moral when in fact it is highly immoral. One merely has to take a look at history to understand all the harm religion has caused merely because theists erroneously believed they were behaving morally according to god's guidance.

(May 8, 2014 at 2:33 pm)Kitanetos Wrote:

(May 8, 2014 at 2:26 pm)Lek Wrote: The focus of a christian's life is serving God and, in following his teachings we also serve others. Loving God also means loving others.

False.

In following god, theists have always caused more harm than good, because they are under the mistaken impression that their religious guidance is moral when in fact it is highly immoral. One merely has to take a look at history to understand all the harm religion has caused merely because theists erroneously believed they were behaving morally according to god's guidance.

What? All that harm like giving food and shelter to the poor. And all those those christian teenagers that travel each year to build free housing for destitute families. Also, don't forget that evil Mother Theresa and her band of demons in habits who still carry on her work in the streets of Calcutta ministering to the sick and homeless. Of course, I think that the people who work at the local christian food bank do so just so they can laugh at the people who come in for food. The people who cause harm by their actions are not acting according to christian principles. If you read the bible, you'll find that Jesus directed us to love our enemies.

(May 8, 2014 at 2:26 pm)Lek Wrote: I'm using it because I mean it. If you live only to serve yourself, then you don't have any desire to help others in a way that would cause yourself to suffer. I see self-serving people as being selfish people. The fact that we might do something for ourselves doesn't make us self-serving, but it's when that becomes the focus of our lives. The focus of a christian's life is serving God and, in following his teachings we also serve others. Loving God also means loving others.

What makes you think that you don't only serve yourself? Your entire life revolves around how you appear in your god's eyes so you can look like a holy servant. Your life is just as self-serving as anyone else's, because every action you take is to craft a self-image.

(May 8, 2014 at 2:45 pm)Lek Wrote: What? All that harm like giving food and shelter to the poor.

What good religion has done is irrelevant compared to all the harm it has done and still does.

(May 8, 2014 at 2:45 pm)Lek Wrote: The people who cause harm by their actions are not acting according to christian principles.

Yes, they are. You simply do not want to admit that they are tarnishing your religion, so you chalk it up to the fallacy that they are not real christians.

(May 8, 2014 at 2:49 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

(May 8, 2014 at 2:26 pm)Lek Wrote: I'm using it because I mean it. If you live only to serve yourself, then you don't have any desire to help others in a way that would cause yourself to suffer. I see self-serving people as being selfish people. The fact that we might do something for ourselves doesn't make us self-serving, but it's when that becomes the focus of our lives. The focus of a christian's life is serving God and, in following his teachings we also serve others. Loving God also means loving others.

What makes you think that you don't only serve yourself? Your entire life revolves around how you appear in your god's eyes so you can look like a holy servant. Your life is just as self-serving as anyone else's, because every action you take is to craft a self-image.

Apparently you do not believe people can act purely out of love. That's a very cynical and sad view.

(May 8, 2014 at 2:53 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Apparently you do not believe people can act purely out of love. That's a very cynical and sad view.

You're confusing cynicism with a refusal to sugarcoat reality for psychological comfort. I know it frightens you to think of humans as biological machines, because you believe it relegates us to insignificance. The fact of the matter is, however, that humans are reward driven organisms, and, despite your pious self-image, you wouldn't do a thing if you weren't revceiving a reward in the form of neurotransmitters.

You're not a selfless holy man. You're just hooked on chemicals.

(May 8, 2014 at 2:26 pm)Lek Wrote: I was just pointing out that what we believe from science changes all the time.

Yeah, because changing beliefs to account for new information and observation is such a terrible thing.

That's a feature, not a bug.

(May 8, 2014 at 4:02 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

(May 8, 2014 at 2:53 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Apparently you do not believe people can act purely out of love. That's a very cynical and sad view.

You're confusing cynicism with a refusal to sugarcoat reality for psychological comfort. I know it frightens you to think of humans as biological machines, because you believe it relegates us to insignificance. The fact of the matter is, however, that humans are reward driven organisms, and, despite your pious self-image, you wouldn't do a thing if you weren't revceiving a reward in the form of neurotransmitters.

You're not a selfless holy man. You're just hooked on chemicals.

You're also not selfless either. You're just a biological mechanism. Enjoy that high! Now I know why we have so many drug addicts.

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(May 8, 2014 at 4:14 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(May 8, 2014 at 2:26 pm)Lek Wrote: I was just pointing out that what we believe from science changes all the time.

Yeah, because changing beliefs to account for new information and observation is such a terrible thing.

That's a feature, not a bug.

It's okay. We just can't put our total trust in it because we can't be sure we're right.