(May 25, 2014 at 6:10 am)sven Wrote: There is something that has been bothering me lately. The other day I had a drink with a friend of mine who is what I would call very christian. She doesn't talk about it much, but she is. You notice it in the way she acts and speaks, sometimes.
It struck me that she is a very nice person to be around. If I could select a personality to have, her's would clearly be nominated. In fact most christians I know are somewhat similar to her.
Now contrast her with the people I know who identify as atheists or 'anti-theists' as some would call them. (I would prefer the term 'anti-religious')
Quirky, narcissistic, poor listener, beligerent about everything, odd (in a bad way) false/poor self image, constantly pessimistic, rude, inconsiderate, selfish or just simply crazy...
Most of them are some or all of the above. I have my reasons for liking them and having them as friends, but I can't deny the negative feelings I get sometimes.
I'm not talking about people who don't give a damned about religion one way or another... I mean people who really care about the issue.
Now I'm not saying that all the christians I know are nice people. One is in fact a huge asshole who I dislike intensely.
Is there a trend here, or am I imagining things?

Do you think it is her religion that made her a nice person or do you think she would still be a nice person without her religion?

I dont think the two are linked and tend to think that people can be good or bad with or without religion, often in spite of their religion, and your friend is probably just a nice person.

(May 26, 2014 at 7:31 am)jesus_wept Wrote:

(May 25, 2014 at 6:10 am)sven Wrote: There is something that has been bothering me lately. The other day I had a drink with a friend of mine who is what I would call very christian. She doesn't talk about it much, but she is. You notice it in the way she acts and speaks, sometimes.
It struck me that she is a very nice person to be around. If I could select a personality to have, her's would clearly be nominated. In fact most christians I know are somewhat similar to her.
Now contrast her with the people I know who identify as atheists or 'anti-theists' as some would call them. (I would prefer the term 'anti-religious')
Quirky, narcissistic, poor listener, beligerent about everything, odd (in a bad way) false/poor self image, constantly pessimistic, rude, inconsiderate, selfish or just simply crazy...
Most of them are some or all of the above. I have my reasons for liking them and having them as friends, but I can't deny the negative feelings I get sometimes.
I'm not talking about people who don't give a damned about religion one way or another... I mean people who really care about the issue.
Now I'm not saying that all the christians I know are nice people. One is in fact a huge asshole who I dislike intensely.
Is there a trend here, or am I imagining things?

Do you think it is her religion that made her a nice person or do you think she would still be a nice person without her religion?

I dont think the two are linked and tend to think that people can be good or bad with or without religion, often in spite of their religion, and your friend is probably just a nice person.

I have to say. some of you atheist are rational here. I would definitly join this sect of atheistism.

One last question to see if this observation is true. How do you feel about spellering errors?

(May 26, 2014 at 9:30 am)archangle Wrote: One last question to see if this observation is true. How do you feel about spellering errors?

Chrome's spellering check is my best friend unless I select a wrong option for a misspelled ward and don't not ace.

(May 25, 2014 at 6:10 am)sven Wrote: There is something that has been bothering me lately. The other day I had a drink with a friend of mine who is what I would call very christian. She doesn't talk about it much, but she is. You notice it in the way she acts and speaks, sometimes.
It struck me that she is a very nice person to be around. If I could select a personality to have, her's would clearly be nominated. In fact most christians I know are somewhat similar to her.
Now contrast her with the people I know who identify as atheists or 'anti-theists' as some would call them. (I would prefer the term 'anti-religious')
Quirky, narcissistic, poor listener, beligerent about everything, odd (in a bad way) false/poor self image, constantly pessimistic, rude, inconsiderate, selfish or just simply crazy...
Most of them are some or all of the above. I have my reasons for liking them and having them as friends, but I can't deny the negative feelings I get sometimes.
I'm not talking about people who don't give a damned about religion one way or another... I mean people who really care about the issue.
Now I'm not saying that all the christians I know are nice people. One is in fact a huge asshole who I dislike intensely.
Is there a trend here, or am I imagining things?

I think your trend would disappear if you separated anti-theists from secular humanists and other atheists. What do you expect from people who are defined as being hostile to something?

It's always hard to tell what's true when there's a popular stereotype for biases like confirmation bias to gravitate your thinking toward.

I also suspect that people are pretty much all alike when you get away from hot topics like religion.

(May 25, 2014 at 6:10 am)sven Wrote: Quirky, narcissistic, poor listener, beligerent about everything, odd (in a bad way) false/poor self image, constantly pessimistic, rude, inconsiderate, selfish or just simply crazy...
Most of them are some or all of the above. I have my reasons for liking them and having them as friends, but I can't deny the negative feelings I get sometimes.
I'm not talking about people who don't give a damned about religion one way or another... I mean people who really care about the issue.

Ever since becoming an atheist, I've become a bit of an asshole myself. I wasn't one when I was christian. Reading your list, I see a lot of what I'm becoming. This is a brilliant thread. I'll try give some reasons and maybe someone might confirm or correct.

I think that the atheists described in your list are largely deconverts hitting out at life. Think about it. You just realised that you've been played for a substantial part of your life. I mean I was christian for 15 years! That crutch you been leaning on just crumbled. You realise life is real and the finality of death is suffocating. The fairy tail's gone. Little red riding hood actually got raped. So then the pessimism kicks in. Life is random. We're only here as a consequence of nature.

When you've licked your wounds you transform. You survived. You're a survivor! You just escaped the matrix. You are the one! And then that's when the ego kicks in. This results in the narcism. "Man why can't these foolish theists get it? I'm so smart." So now that you're the man, why the fuck you gotta listen to anyone? Poor listener...check.

But you're bitter. You look back and think why didn't I know better. Why me? You sometimes talk out loud saying something like fuck god. Even if you're real I want you to know that because you didn't answer me when I needed you, you can go right ahead and fuck yourself. Your bitterness turns to belligerence.

Now that heaven doesn't exist, what you gotta play nice for? No one's in the sky with a big clip board tallying your good deeds anymore. In rebellion to this non-existent god, I actively forced myself to stop giving money to beggars on the road. I guess I wanted to pull some power back. I was being nice all this time because of the duress posed by hell. So I needed to regain some power and made a point about being selfish. Isn't that fucked up? I had to deny desperate people just to prove that I had the power and god didn't. God made me give in the past so each beggar I denied was a fuck you to god. Beggars were just caught in the cross fire between me and an imaginary being. Wow.

I doubt that life long atheists fit these adjectives. I'd love to see formal stats comparing life long atheists to deconverts. I think that's where you'll find your trend.

(May 26, 2014 at 5:12 pm)BlackMason Wrote: I doubt that life long atheists fit these adjectives. I'd love to see formal stats comparing life long atheists to deconverts. I think that's where you'll find your trend.

My impression is that atheists seem to converge on a form of secular humanism which is a positive philosophy.

I think you're likely right that the angry young man stage is just a phase, but I wonder what the ratio is, specifically dealing with vocal atheists, as there doesn't seem to be a way to get at what non-vocal atheists believe. Which raises another question, how much of this stereotype might be dependent on the possibility that the angry young deconverts are the most vocal group?

(May 26, 2014 at 5:25 pm)rasetsu Wrote:

(May 26, 2014 at 5:12 pm)BlackMason Wrote: I doubt that life long atheists fit these adjectives. I'd love to see formal stats comparing life long atheists to deconverts. I think that's where you'll find your trend.

My impression is that atheists seem to converge on a form of secular humanism which is a positive philosophy.

I think you're likely right that the angry young man stage is just a phase, but I wonder what the ratio is, specifically dealing with vocal atheists, as there doesn't seem to be a way to get at what non-vocal atheists believe. Which raises another question, how much of this stereotype might be dependent on the possibility that the angry young deconverts are the most vocal group?

Perfect! Nothing more to add.

(May 26, 2014 at 4:03 pm)rasetsu Wrote: It's always hard to tell what's true when there's a popular stereotype for biases like confirmation bias to gravitate your thinking toward.

I also suspect that people are pretty much all alike when you get away from hot topics like religion.

I always assumed so. Now I'm not so sure. I think my neurotic as hell but relentlessly nice religious aunt must have a profoundly different subjective experience to my own. Now I think it safer to say we're probably pretty much alike depending how neurotic our environments have made us. Or in our better moments we are pretty much the same.

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Nice to hear your 'voice' again, Rasetsu.

(May 26, 2014 at 10:18 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: I think your trend would disappear if you separated anti-theists from secular humanists and other atheists. What do you expect from people who are defined as being hostile to something?

boom, you nailed it. so did sven and the others.

I must admit I suffer anti-theist disgust and put my foot up my own ass these last few weeks. I just got tried of how they talk to people while hidden in a forum. When I talk to these type face to face the conversations go much different. In person we have to stay on topic with the information we have.

Rational atheist and rational theist have little problem when some basic ground rules are set. Unless of course alcohol is involved.

I think most people agree it is ok to believe or not believe. It is not ok to force (or call them evil) your "beliefs" on others.

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(May 26, 2014 at 10:09 am)Confused Ape Wrote:

(May 26, 2014 at 9:30 am)archangle Wrote: One last question to see if this observation is true. How do you feel about spellering errors?

Chrome's spellering check is my best friend unless I select a wrong option for a misspelled ward and don't not ace.

I am in

when someone says something stupid it is ok for both side to laugh with each other and let them rephrase it.