I'm gonna pose a question I heard Matt Dillahunty ask a Christian. What indicator made you think that the devil is the bad guy?

(June 4, 2014 at 10:32 am)BlackMason Wrote: I'm gonna pose a question I heard Matt Dillahunty ask a Christian. What indicator made you think that the devil is the bad guy?

Devil is the good guy, he stood up to a mean, bossy, dictator who was way over the line and got the crap beat out of him.

I believe I made a thread about this once. The only real reason people believe Yahweh is good, and Satan is evil, is because it says so. The actions don't seem to quite match up with the claims, though.

John 8
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Can you think of a good example of him lying? In the garden of Eden, nothing he says to Eve seems to be false. Eating the fruit isn't what killed her. Yahweh refusing to let them eat from the Tree of Life, after admitting that what the snake/Satan said about becoming more like him was true, is what caused them to eventually die.

He offered the world to Jesus, and he's said to have domain over it.

Like I said, there are claims about the characters of Yahweh and Satan that don't always match up with their actions.

(June 4, 2014 at 11:12 am)Chad32 Wrote: Can you think of a good example of him lying?

"Doesn't matter, because the John 8 said so! And I know the bible is true because it says so right here in the Bible!"

When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Not sure how being a liar follows from being selfish...

(June 4, 2014 at 11:04 am)alpha male Wrote: John 8
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

That doesn't help your position.

That is just exactly what the bad one would say to fool you into believing he is the good one.

Do you think the majority of people in North Korea believe Kim Jong-un is bad?

Let me break it to you, they don't. Since he has control of the media, he is able to make everyone in North Korea believe he is close to a god, and that the US and other western democracies are evil.

Again, how do you know that the 'Yahweh' character is the good one, and the 'Satan' character is the bad one? All you can do is quote the book that was inspired by the one that controlled the content and depicts himself as being the good one.

(June 4, 2014 at 11:12 am)Chad32 Wrote: Can you think of a good example of him lying? In the garden of Eden, nothing he says to Eve seems to be false.

Eve was there, and said that he deceived her. Note also that the passage notes his cunning - he's not blatant in his lies.

(June 4, 2014 at 11:42 am)alpha male Wrote:

(June 4, 2014 at 11:12 am)Chad32 Wrote: Can you think of a good example of him lying? In the garden of Eden, nothing he says to Eve seems to be false.

Eve was there, and said that he deceived her. Note also that the passage notes his cunning - he's not blatant in his lies.

Well obviously she was wrong. Like I said, nothing he said was wrong. I don't know how sure he was that Yahweh would punish them for being enlightened, but knowledge is not a bad thing. Or if you think it's a sex metaphor, natural processes are not a bad thing.

Yes he's called cunning. Cunning enough to figure out the truth, and know that being immortal and ignorant isn't as good as being mortal and enlightened.

I don't know why they hid themselves, or had a problem with being naked. If it was wrong to be naked, why were they allowed to be unclothed in the first place? It makes no sense, except for a society that was raised to believe nakedness is wrong.

(June 4, 2014 at 10:54 am)Chad32 Wrote: I believe I made a thread about this once. The only real reason people believe Yahweh is good, and Satan is evil, is because it says so. The actions don't seem to quite match up with the claims, though.

Because Christians inexplicably trust YHWH.