What a fucked up Dad. He never expects you to be responsible for anything?

(April 30, 2010 at 11:57 pm)Godschild Wrote: I do not need to prove to you that I have a personal relationship with God I have it, it's mine and that's that. Because you think that God is imaginary does not make it so and because I believe in Him does not make Him real. We can not effect the existance of God, God simple is.

OK I may be a bit drunk ..but WTF is ",god simple is."

Word of advice; don't post drunk. That neeeever ends well.

(May 1, 2010 at 4:12 am)Atheist_named_Christian Wrote:

(April 30, 2010 at 9:12 pm)KichigaiNeko Wrote: All of the above is something I would expect to hear from an infant. So this could also be used to confirm that "believers" are nothing more than unevolved, dependant, selfish children that are addicted to their childhood notion of "Daddy will fix it" ?hock:

"Religion is comparable to a childhood neurosis" - Sigmund Freud.

Naiveté is the most likely reason for faith, isn't it? I also tend to decline that a lot of people are naive like this but it's just not backed up by evidence.
But the growing numbers of atheists, scientists and all other sort of people who believe in Physical Evidence And Reasoned Logic (PEARL) anywhere in the world renders me optimistic that one day most people might really be enlightened.

One can only hope. But as you say the numbers are looking encouraging.

Paul the Human Wrote:This was the reason that I posted this thread in the first place. I wanted to demonstrate (to myself) that there can be no belief in god without faith, because there is no compelling reason to believe in god that does not require god to exist. Therefore, I feel that I have no reason to believe in god. I am incapable of faith in something with no evidence (in the religious sense of the word, of course I have faith that my mom will be alive when I arrive at her house later, for example).

Well that's confusing. You thought you could separate belief in God and belief in him existing?

And are you saying that without hard evidence you wouldn't believe? Because that's how EVERYONE believes. Only the certifiable believe on hard evidence.


speaking of which...

EvF Wrote:Not one reason to believe that the belief is actually true. Just a load of false hope. What a load of fucking bullshit.

We're talking of impossible evidence here again of course. And hope based on positivity is demostrably effective.


@ Atheist_named_Christian :

Thanks for expandig on your points. I repeat mine back at you. What has been done in the name of Christianity, and what we know Christianity to stand for, are two different thngs.

What I wanted, fr0d0, was to show that the only way for anyone to believe in the existence of god is to have faith, because there is no reason to believe in god if he is not real. In order to believe in god, you have to take it entirely on faith. I find that irrational. I was just curious if you or any other theist could demonstrate a reason to believe that did not require faith. An actual reason to believe in god.

Whenever I ask that question, I usually get answers concerning the afterlife and/or morality. In order for those things to be reasons to believe, god must exist. If he doesn't... they are not reasons at all. That's my point.

At least if you ask for a reason for believing the universe is expanding you could say Red Shift or Electromagnetic Background Noise.

Well that's perfectly acceptable IMO then Paul. Faith cannot be 'rational' because it has to be in a subject that is unknown to be truly 'faith'. Also, faith is the trust in knowledge we accept.

(May 2, 2010 at 4:14 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: We're talking of impossible evidence here again of course. And hope based on positivity is demostrably effective.

Whether the evidence is impossible or possible - you're perfectly willing to believe without it. Enjoy your placebo. Without evidence it's nothing more than that.

Hope based on positivity is just a placebo if it's not reality based. As I said: enjoy your placebo.

It's laughable really... because I make the point that the reason you gave wasn't one reason to believe that your belief was true - and your response didn't even bother to defend that! You perfectly admit you'd rather just go with hope and positivity because it's 'effective'. Who gives a fuck if God actually exists or is in any way real and not a delusion eh? (Well I give a fuck but you don't seem to).

en-joy. your. placebo.

I still fail to see how you have anything more than that.

EvF

(May 3, 2010 at 5:16 am)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: Whether the evidence is impossible or possible - you're perfectly willing to believe without it.

That being a strict requirement, I, and everyone else, have no choice but to believe without empirical evidence. Why harp on about it?

I believe : I trust the information presented to be true. Moving on from that, I appreciate the real benefits of it. Those are very real.

I'm incredulous that you feel you can make a judgement on something you have absolutely no experience of. Personally I'd wan't to see the evidence before making judgement. But that's just me.