In what was was it an actual fulfillment? You'd need to presuppose Christian views to argue this.

I am a materialist and the majority of us may be too. The idea of 'soul' is just so impossible and pointless in itself. It is often asked, 'where does love and happiness come from then?', the answer to that is the emotional functions of the brain - the limbic system. But, that's for further scientific discussion.

(June 8, 2014 at 12:14 pm)Irrational Wrote: In what was was it an actual fulfillment? You'd need to presuppose Christian views to argue this.

It's not presupposing. It's looking at the old testament prophecies and seeing their fulfillment in Jesus. What do you see as the requirement for the fulfillment of the old testament?

(June 8, 2014 at 8:29 pm)Lek Wrote:

(June 8, 2014 at 12:14 pm)Irrational Wrote: In what was was it an actual fulfillment? You'd need to presuppose Christian views to argue this.

It's not presupposing. It's looking at the old testament prophecies and seeing their fulfillment in Jesus. What do you see as the requirement for the fulfillment of the old testament?

He must be called Immanuel. Matthew 1:23

He must be a descendant of David. Romans 1:3 and Acts 2:30

There was no destruction of Jewish countries as outlined in Isaiah 7:16

(June 6, 2014 at 12:31 pm)Lek Wrote: The trinity was active on earth throughout the old testament. The Son appeared a number of times as "the angel of the lord" and the Holy Spirit was active in the very first chapter of the bible during the creation of the world.

You got some scriptural evidence that these claims are actually the trinity and not more of your bullshit?

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(June 7, 2014 at 11:56 am)Lek Wrote: That's if you want to disregard 1/3 or so of the bible.

I'll bet you routinely disregard large parts of the buy-bull because they're inconvenient to you.

Do you eat bacon? Shellfish? Squid, shark or catfish? Do you beat disobedient children and kill the rebellious ones? Do you kill those who fail to keep the sabbath? Do you even keep the sabbath? Do you even know what day the sabbath day is?

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(June 8, 2014 at 8:29 pm)Lek Wrote: It's not presupposing. It's looking at the old testament prophecies and seeing their fulfillment in Jesus. What do you see as the requirement for the fulfillment of the old testament?

Yep. It couldn't possibly be that the writers of the NT weren't reading the OT and writing the NT with the direct purpose of making it fit the original narrative.

Much the way J.K. Rowling made "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows" fit the rest of the narrative, including the fulfillment of prophesy.

Nah. That couldn't have happened. Nor could a council of men decide the canon, making sure that the most contradictory stuff got left out.

(June 8, 2014 at 8:47 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote:

(June 8, 2014 at 8:29 pm)Lek Wrote: It's not presupposing. It's looking at the old testament prophecies and seeing their fulfillment in Jesus. What do you see as the requirement for the fulfillment of the old testament?

He must be called Immanuel. Matthew 1:23

He must be a descendant of David. Romans 1:3 and Acts 2:30

There was no destruction of Jewish countries as outlined in Isaiah 7:16

Immanuel literally means God is with us:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God....and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us..." (John 1:1,14).
For in Him [Jesus] all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form" (Col. 2:9).

His lineage is traced to David legally through Joseph in Matthew 1:1-17 and by blood through Mary in Luke 3:23-38.

"For before the boy will know enough to refuse evil and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread will be forsaken. (NASB ©1995)
Both kings were killed by the king of Assyria within a couple years. The verse doesn't mention that any countries would be destroyed.

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(June 8, 2014 at 10:23 pm)GalacticBusDriver Wrote: You got some scriptural evidence that these claims are actually the trinity and not more of your bullshit?

There's not one sentence in the bible that says directly "there's three persons in one God". You have to read it it all and use your brain.

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(June 8, 2014 at 10:23 pm)GalacticBusDriver Wrote: Do you eat bacon? Shellfish? Squid, shark or catfish? Do you beat disobedient children and kill the rebellious ones? Do you kill those who fail to keep the sabbath? Do you even keep the sabbath? Do you even know what day the sabbath day is?

I love bacon and don't observe the sabbath. I'm not under the old covenant.

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(June 8, 2014 at 10:23 pm)GalacticBusDriver Wrote: [
Yep. It couldn't possibly be that the writers of the NT weren't reading the OT and writing the NT with the direct purpose of making it fit the original narrative.

Nah. That couldn't have happened. Nor could a council of men decide the canon, making sure that the most contradictory stuff got left out.

Could it be possible that it's all true?

(June 8, 2014 at 8:29 pm)Lek Wrote:

(June 8, 2014 at 12:14 pm)Irrational Wrote: In what was was it an actual fulfillment? You'd need to presuppose Christian views to argue this.

It's not presupposing. It's looking at the old testament prophecies and seeing their fulfillment in Jesus. What do you see as the requirement for the fulfillment of the old testament?

You're mixing words again. Is this about prophecies or the covenant? First f all, you need to establish that it needed fulfillment. Prophecies, understandable. But I thought we were talking about something else by "Old Testament".

(June 8, 2014 at 11:14 pm)Lek Wrote: Could it be possible that it's all true?

No, partly because we know factually that at least some of it isn't true. Bam.

(June 8, 2014 at 11:14 pm)Lek Wrote:

(June 8, 2014 at 10:23 pm)GalacticBusDriver Wrote: [
Yep. It couldn't possibly be that the writers of the NT weren't reading the OT and writing the NT with the direct purpose of making it fit the original narrative.

Nah. That couldn't have happened. Nor could a council of men decide the canon, making sure that the most contradictory stuff got left out.

Could it be possible that it's all true?

What that someone wrote it who believed it was true? Sure. Could it also be that your all-powerful genie commandeered those writers bodies in order to transcribe His word? Pft. Don't think so. Don't really care if you want to believe it though. *backs away slowly*

(June 8, 2014 at 11:14 pm)Lek Wrote:

(June 8, 2014 at 8:47 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: He must be a descendant of David. Romans 1:3 and Acts 2:30

His lineage is traced to David legally through Joseph in Matthew 1:1-17 and by blood through Mary in Luke 3:23-38.

(June 8, 2014 at 10:23 pm)GalacticBusDriver Wrote: Yep. It couldn't possibly be that the writers of the NT weren't reading the OT and writing the NT with the direct purpose of making it fit the original narrative.

Nah. That couldn't have happened. Nor could a council of men decide the canon, making sure that the most contradictory stuff got left out.

Could it be possible that it's all true?

Lineage through Joseph, who did not have sex with that woman?
Really?

As for the prophesies in the OT that jeebus supposedly fulfilled, isn't it queer that the prophesies were so old at the time of jesus' birth that no one living at the time would have had any firsthand knowledge of the previous prophesies, only supposed scripture written down years latter? So why would god wait so long so as to make sure there were no living people to corroborate his prophesy fulfillments? It's easy to see why lying scripture writers would do that, but not from the prospective of a real god..