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RE: Abortion is morally wrong
June 18, 2014 at 6:28 pm
I defined human being in the OP and no, Boru, I do not believe that at all. In fertilization the genetic information from both the man and woman meet and the formation of a new, living human being is formed. Sperm and oocytes do not meet this requirement but a unicellular zygote that genetically directs its own development does.
Cthulhu, I have been kind and charitable in my responses what have I done to deserve such snark? Or perhaps I have read you all wrong in that case.... 
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RE: Abortion is morally wrong
June 18, 2014 at 6:29 pm
Your point is totally irrlevant. It does not matter if the dependent person is there by choice or not. All that matters is bodily autonomy. If you don't believe a woman should have full control of her body, then you are simply reducing them to sub-human baby factories.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Abortion is morally wrong
June 18, 2014 at 6:31 pm
Bad Wolf, I believe you ignored my first response to that. Its self-defeating.
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RE: Abortion is morally wrong
June 18, 2014 at 6:37 pm
(June 18, 2014 at 6:28 pm)Arthur123 Wrote: I defined human being in the OP and no, Boru, I do not believe that at all. In fertilization the genetic information from both the man and woman meet and the formation of a new, living human being is formed. Sperm and oocytes do not meet this requirement but a unicellular zygote that genetically directs its own development does.
Your definition is arbitrary, your own opinion, equivocates "human being" with "person" (and conflates it with the legal definition of same), and is very much a matter open to debate. That you chose to ignore those objections in no way lends legitimacy to your opinion.
(June 18, 2014 at 6:28 pm)Arthur123 Wrote: Cthulhu, I have been kind and charitable in my responses what have I done to deserve such snark? Or perhaps I have read you all wrong in that case....
You thought that reply was snarky? Stick around. Snark is just one more free service I offer. Some of us get a little cranky when people gloss over perfectly valid points of debate only to reassert an original assertion - to wit, the definition of "human being" and how that applies to zygotes.
Seriously, you ignored both of my replies in your wall-of-text reply (seriously, paragraphs and whitespace are a thing [snark!]).
Ignoring such valid points is the opposite of kind and charitable.
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RE: Abortion is morally wrong
June 18, 2014 at 6:40 pm
(This post was last modified: June 18, 2014 at 6:42 pm by Arthur123.)
I don't believe I am. How exactly am I equivocating? Furthermore, just because someone disagrees with you or perhaps sees your points as invalid does nothing to merit personal attacks.
Kindest regards,
By the way, I love to learn in the pursuit of truth. I am an undergrad philosophy student who hopes to obtain his PhD one day. Nothing makes me happier than hearing what other people have to say and hopefully, learning something new.
Kindest regards,
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RE: Abortion is morally wrong
June 18, 2014 at 6:48 pm
(June 18, 2014 at 2:50 pm)Esquilax Wrote: (June 18, 2014 at 12:59 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: In fact, Christians have the most abortions.
Dare I post this again? ' The only moral abortion is my abortion.'
Holy crap.
I knew some of these people were hypocrites but I've not seen the level of hypocrisy displayed by some of these women in years
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
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RE: Abortion is morally wrong
June 18, 2014 at 6:51 pm
ahh! Hypocrites are so unfortunate. We as humans should do the moral thing when presented with the opportunity, these women are disappointing indeed.
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RE: Abortion is morally wrong
June 18, 2014 at 6:56 pm
(June 18, 2014 at 6:40 pm)Arthur123 Wrote: I don't believe I am. How exactly am I equivocating?
Going from human DNA = human being to that same entity being a full person under the law, deserving of the same rights as born persons. You ignore some very important differences between zygote, fetus, and born person in order to do so.
Nor have you demonstrated convincingly why this should be so.
(June 18, 2014 at 6:40 pm)Arthur123 Wrote: Furthermore, just because someone disagrees with you or perhaps sees your points as invalid does nothing to merit personal attacks.
Please show me where I've attacked you, personally or otherwise.
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RE: Abortion is morally wrong
June 18, 2014 at 7:00 pm
(June 18, 2014 at 6:48 pm)Beccs Wrote: (June 18, 2014 at 2:50 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Dare I post this again? ' The only moral abortion is my abortion.'
Holy crap.
I knew some of these people were hypocrites but I've not seen the level of hypocrisy displayed by some of these women in years
The more frequently and loudly someone condemns something, the more assured you can be it's something they do.
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RE: Abortion is morally wrong
June 18, 2014 at 7:02 pm
Cthulhu, I have defined a human being as someone belonging to the species homo-sapien. I believe this to be the default view and indeed, the only coherant definition. Indeed, the zygote to the fetus, fetus to the child, child to adult. Are all just stages of their development. Since the fetus is informationally complete in its human informationit can be said it is a human being. Or similarly, as Alexander Pruss PhD in both mathematics and philosophy who holds a professorship at Baylor University states, if something exists and never ceases to exist than it can be said that thing is still alive. I am a fetus, I was a fetus just as I was a child and to say a fetus is any less human than a child is completely arbitrary.
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