I do not have, nor will I have, children.

(June 19, 2014 at 4:26 am)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: I do not have, nor will I have, children.

Best news all day!

(June 19, 2014 at 2:48 am)ShaMan Wrote: I have 3 children...

Ages 19, 20, and 22 Y.O.

Sounds like you're a couple years out from a bunch of grandchildren, too.

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(June 18, 2014 at 10:18 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: I'm not sure why you're making such a thing out of late-term abortions. They're not really a concern, IMO, especially since the vast majority are done when a life is threatened, which makes late-term abortion a good thing.

I don't think Jenny A's intent was to demonize late term abortion or the people who find it medically necessary. She certainly didn't start ranting or raving about it, or make a big deal IMO.

In general, I think it's fair to say that as a fetus develops, it gets harder and harder to justify ending its development. A late-term fetus can feel pain. I has limited communication with the mother and even with the environment beyond. This is very different than a newly-fertilized egg, which is really only a couple vodkas and a broken condom away from non-existence anyway.

But none of that means that killing a fetus late-term is intrinsically immoral. You could perhaps argue that even AFTER birth, it could sometimes be better to kill a young infant than to allow it to live. For example, if a child is born with a severe birth defect in a society which will neither provide care for it nor give it a chance to find beauty in its limited circumstances, a loving mother could conceivably decide that walking into the ocean with babe in arms would be better than living on in hell.

(June 19, 2014 at 12:59 am)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: How one defines murder is also crucial. Contrary to many "pro-lifers," I believe war, the death penalty, and certain forms of animal cruelty are tantamount to murder, yet killing in self-defense, assisted suicide, and abortion are not.

Interesting mix. I'm sure you've already hashed these out more than once in other threads here and elsewhere. I with you about self defense (to which I'd add the defense of others) assisted suicide, and suicide itself. They are not murder. Where the mother's life or even long term health are at risk, late term abortions can be a form of self defense.

If you were schizophrenic and killed your "other self" would that be murder?

(June 19, 2014 at 6:53 am)fr0d0 Wrote:

(June 19, 2014 at 4:26 am)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: I do not have, nor will I have, children.

Best news all day! ;)

<Image removed>

(June 19, 2014 at 10:49 am)Rampant.A.I. Wrote:

(June 19, 2014 at 6:53 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Best news all day!

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(June 18, 2014 at 12:30 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Forcing a woman to carry her fetus to term against her will is, maybe too literally, 'forced labor'. It reduces her to an object. In theory, you would have to be willing to confine her and strap her down to make sure she delivers. This is what the 'pro-life' position is about, ultimately: forcing women to deliver against their will.

... and it represents the enlistment of biology in their war to keep women subservient.

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(June 18, 2014 at 6:40 pm)Arthur123 Wrote: I don't believe I am. How exactly am I equivocating? Furthermore, just because someone disagrees with you or perhaps sees your points as invalid does nothing to merit personal attacks.
Kindest regards,

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By the way, I love to learn in the pursuit of truth. I am an undergrad philosophy student who hopes to obtain his PhD one day. Nothing makes me happier than hearing what other people have to say and hopefully, learning something new.
Kindest regards,

You should do him the favor of answering his objections rather than pointing back to your OP. It is, after all, a fallacy in your OP to which he objects. Directing him back there is the functional equivalent of not addressing him at all, and shows insincere intentions, in my opinion.

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(June 18, 2014 at 8:39 pm)Arthur123 Wrote: If I was a fetus and I am a human than it follows that a fetus, to, is a human.

A caterpillar is not a butterfly. It is a potential butterfly.

(June 19, 2014 at 9:19 am)fr0d0 Wrote: If you were schizophrenic and killed your "other self" would that be murder?

I doubt it. Schizophrenia doesn't involve having multiple personalities.