(June 22, 2014 at 2:21 pm)Arthur123 Wrote: Moral truths, things regarding morality that are true regardless if anyone believes in them or not. Example, the Nazis were morally wrong perpetuating the Holocaust even if everyone in Germany thought it was okay or even all of the allied and axis forces thought it to be so.

What you're describing is called objective morality. Who gets to decide these "moral truths" that you speak of?

(June 22, 2014 at 3:46 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote:

(June 22, 2014 at 2:21 pm)Arthur123 Wrote: Moral truths, things regarding morality that are true regardless if anyone believes in them or not. Example, the Nazis were morally wrong perpetuating the Holocaust even if everyone in Germany thought it was okay or even all of the allied and axis forces thought it to be so.

What you're describing is called objective morality. Who gets to decide these "moral truths" that you speak of?

THe almighty magical skyfairy. Who else?

(June 22, 2014 at 4:03 pm)Beccs Wrote:

(June 22, 2014 at 3:46 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: What you're describing is called objective morality. Who gets to decide these "moral truths" that you speak of?

THe almighty magical skyfairy. Who else?

Thanks Beccs. That's where I'm leading:

Arthur, if your god is who decides what is objectively moral, you can't say that you don't base your argument against abortion on your religion.

Our "objective" friend here thinks this "objective" tactic has never been used before by theists. They pull the "objective" tactic because they know they cant say "my god said" and "this verse says".

He learned a few buzz words and swallowed the elaborate Kool Aid someone else sold him prior, not knowing the lions den he was going to actually face.

He also will not accept that atheists have empathy and don't view abortion as some sort of toga party at a collage frat where abortions are like beer pong. We simply see it as an unfortunate part of reality and it is better to make it safe rather than to make things worse. He views it as a utopia where it should not happen at all.

Why are we even entertaining this "objective" crap? The guy flat out said he was presupposing it to be true rather than demonstrating it; why do we need to dance to his tune merely because he wants us to?

We don't need to run when he's not chasing us: without demonstrations we have no obligation to contort ourselves to suit his argument.

(June 22, 2014 at 4:26 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Why are we even entertaining this "objective" crap? The guy flat out said he was presupposing it to be true rather than demonstrating it; why do we need to dance to his tune merely because he wants us to?

We don't need to run when he's not chasing us: without demonstrations we have no obligation to contort ourselves to suit his argument.

Right, that is what the believer has to do, assume a starting point, then when called on it dodge to "I wasn't arguing a god at all".

He doesn't want to admit that this is nothing really more than his own personal bias. In a utopia every baby born would go to full term and be healthy and wanted and the parents would have the means to raise it. But that is not the utopia we live in. All the atheist argues is since that is the case lets not make things worse by forcing decisions on people who we are not personally involved in.

(June 22, 2014 at 4:26 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Why are we even entertaining this "objective" crap? The guy flat out said he was presupposing it to be true rather than demonstrating it; why do we need to dance to his tune merely because he wants us to?

We don't need to run when he's not chasing us: without demonstrations we have no obligation to contort ourselves to suit his argument.

The clown won't even engage in a conversation that directly challenges his "objective morality" claim. That the welfare of real children is more important than the welfare of potential children.

He thinks his gawd told him that abortion is wrong, all the time, every time, so he's here to preach it.

The problem is that morons like this think pro choice theists and atheists are for no regulation and that abortion should be like beer on tap. NO, all we are saying is that it will happen no matter what so lets not make it worse by demonizing girls/women who end up in life threatening situations, rape and incest, or medical or even economic positions where we are simply saving the baby because kittens are cute.

There is not just a fetus/baby involved and that is the part these utopian morons do not want to face.

Wikipedia Wrote:Moral realism is a non-nihilist form of cognitivism. In summary, it claims:

• Ethical sentences express propositions.
  
• Some such propositions are true.
  
• Those propositions are made true by objective features of the world, independent of subjective opinion.

. . .

One study found that 56% of philosophers accept or lean towards moral realism (28%: anti-realism; 16%: other).

(Moral Realism)

(June 22, 2014 at 2:21 pm)Arthur123 Wrote: Moral truths, things regarding morality that are true regardless if anyone believes in them or not. Example, the Nazis were morally wrong perpetuating the Holocaust even if everyone in Germany thought it was okay or even all of the allied and axis forces thought it to be so.

Errmmmm. . . you just gave your subjective opinion about Nazis and the Holocaust. Where's the part in which this is true "regardless if anyone believes in them or not."