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RE: 3 Questions For Believers (A work in progress.)
June 28, 2014 at 12:18 pm
(June 28, 2014 at 12:01 pm)Lek Wrote: I was stationed at Ellsworth AFB in South Dakota after a few years of living in drunkenness and sexual promiscuity while I was overseas. While there I began hanging out with some christian guys and eventually decided to follow Christ and also got married. When my enlistment ended we decided to drive back to my home in Pennsylvania and "see the country." Well, we were young and, I admit, not very bright and we set off in an old car I had bought there - a French Simca. The wheels were a weird, small size, and I had no spare tire and no extra money.
It was nighttime somewhere in Nebraska when I had my first flat. We were just standing along highway wondering what we would do when a guy pulled up behind us and offered his help. We removed the flat tire and he drove us to a garage where he bought us coffee while they fixed tire. We drove back and put the tire on and he gave us his flashlight because we didn't have one.
We were somewhere in Illinois, I believe, when we had the second flat - the rear right. Again, we were standing beside the highway wondering what to do when a state cop pulled up behind us. I told him the situation and about the weird size tires. Try to find a tire for a Simca in the midwest! He took us to a junkyard and the guy went into a large barn type structure, fished around for awhile, and came out with two used tires on rims, just the right size. The cop drive us back to the car where I replaced the tire and we took off.
I think it was somewhere in Indiana or Ohio where we had the third flat tire. It had blown out on the sidewall, the same as the second flat and I was concerned that something was causing the rim to heat up and cause the tire to blow. We had been on the road for two days and had spent most of our money, so all we could do was to drive straight through. I don't know if the rim was actually heating up and causing the tires to blow or not, but soon it started pouring the rain and continued to rain from wherever we were in Ohio until we pulled into my parents driveway in Pennsylvania.
We ate something and went to bed because we had driven all night. After I woke up, I went downstairs and looked out and saw that the right rear tire had gone flat in the driveway while we had slept.
I've always believed that God wanted to show that he would be with me and he always has been. That was God with me.
That's a beautiful story about people helping strangers. But the supposition that god was with you is a little odd. I've had similar kindness from strangers from time to time. My response has been to try to good in the world too.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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RE: 3 Questions For Believers (A work in progress.)
June 28, 2014 at 12:29 pm
-on the other hand, if I were stuck in Nebraska with a flat and no money, I might bow before Lek's tiregod myself - at least until I got out of Nebraska.....
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: 3 Questions For Believers (A work in progress.)
June 28, 2014 at 1:32 pm
(June 28, 2014 at 12:12 pm)Rhythm Wrote: experience tied to such a mundane series of events as flat tires. Lends credence to the idea that one can have this sort of experience anywhere, anytime, with regards to just about anything. I bet I've had similar experiences.
You wanted to know how I experience God in my life. It's not in parting waters or calling down fire. It's in being there with me step by step daily, mostly with the mundane stuff.
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RE: 3 Questions For Believers (A work in progress.)
June 28, 2014 at 2:28 pm
(June 28, 2014 at 1:32 pm)Lek Wrote: (June 28, 2014 at 12:12 pm)Rhythm Wrote: experience tied to such a mundane series of events as flat tires. Lends credence to the idea that one can have this sort of experience anywhere, anytime, with regards to just about anything. I bet I've had similar experiences.
You wanted to know how I experience God in my life. It's not in parting waters or calling down fire. It's in being there with me step by step daily, mostly with the mundane stuff.
That's pretty much what I thought. It's just that I think you are attributing mundane stuff to god, that is just, well, stuff. I think it is your own inner resources that get you through.
I don't mean to belittle or make fun, but this is why you will never convert skeptics. We tend to look for more natural causes first. And we don't attribute coincidence to the supernatural.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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RE: 3 Questions For Believers (A work in progress.)
June 28, 2014 at 5:33 pm
(This post was last modified: June 28, 2014 at 5:34 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(June 28, 2014 at 1:32 pm)Lek Wrote: You wanted to know how I experience God in my life. It's not in parting waters or calling down fire. It's in being there with me step by step daily, mostly with the mundane stuff. Oh no, I get that, if parting the waters were normal no one would call it "miraculous". If gods there all the time, in your experience, but manages to escape detection time and again by the critical eye - then god must be fixing flat tires, changing oil, paying the bill for those services, etc. If he were parting waters - I think that we might all notice that. Would it be fair to say that you feel gods presence most sharply in the face of obstacles?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: 3 Questions For Believers (A work in progress.)
June 28, 2014 at 6:10 pm
(June 28, 2014 at 2:28 pm)Jenny A Wrote: I don't mean to belittle or make fun, but this is why you will never convert skeptics. We tend to look for more natural causes first. And we don't attribute coincidence to the supernatural.
Yeah. My experiences can be interpreted in different ways depending on your perspective. I just lay out my arguments and experiences and leave the work of converting to God. Of the people I know who have converted to christianity as adults, I don't know of anyone who was argued into believing or studied a bunch of facts and then made their decision to convert.
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RE: 3 Questions For Believers (A work in progress.)
June 28, 2014 at 6:12 pm
(This post was last modified: June 28, 2014 at 6:13 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
No? What about you? God is getting your tire situation handled and cradling you all the way to your final destination. If you weren't a believer before that happened - you would have been after, right? That sort of thing would convince you. Those facts, that argument?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: 3 Questions For Believers (A work in progress.)
June 28, 2014 at 6:20 pm
(This post was last modified: June 28, 2014 at 6:23 pm by Lek.)
(June 28, 2014 at 5:33 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Would it be fair to say that you feel gods presence most sharply in the face of obstacles?
Maybe so, but for me it's a pretty steady relationship. Although, when I'm facing a difficult situation it is comforting to have him there. I'm always confident that if I'm attempting something he would want for me that it will happen. Of course, everything doesn't always happen as I want it to. I just try to live according to God's will, but I don't always. It's me who's living my life and no other person can really know what I'm experiencing.
(June 28, 2014 at 6:12 pm)Rhythm Wrote: No? What about you? God is getting your tire situation handled and cradling you all the way to your final destination. If you weren't a believer before that happened - you would have been after, right? That sort of thing would convince you. Those facts, that argument?
No. I would have probably chalked it up to coincidence. I think I was converted because I opened myself up to him and he came to me. I think it was God's work.
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RE: 3 Questions For Believers (A work in progress.)
June 28, 2014 at 6:28 pm
(June 28, 2014 at 6:20 pm)Lek Wrote: Maybe so, but for me it's a pretty steady relationship. Although, when I'm facing a difficult situation it is comforting to have him there. I'm always confident that if I'm attempting something he would want for me that it will happen. Of course, everything doesn't always happen as I want it to. I just try to live according to God's will, but I don't always. It's me who's living my life and no other person can really know what I'm experiencing. So either way it goes, insha'allah, eh? I admit that this doesn't seem like a very useful metric for considering...well...anything to me. You've found it to be useful though, a good influence in your life. More power to you.
Quote:No. I would have probably chalked it up to coincidence. I think I was converted because I opened myself up to him and he came to me. I think it was God's work.
Hold the phone......are you telling me that your own experience with the divine is insufficient evidence - to you- of the divine? That you've made a special concession?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: 3 Questions For Believers (A work in progress.)
June 28, 2014 at 6:33 pm
Rhythm, Lek,
I find this interesting and I'd like to make it a more general discussion.
Why Do You or Did You Believe?
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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