I think what is most insulting to the "Right to Lifers" is that women still have periods and so "abortions" the fact that after all the protests in front of Family Planning Clinics, people are still accessing this resource.

Essentially, this "pro-life" movement is losing and they are making a mess about dying.

(July 1, 2014 at 12:40 am)bennyboy Wrote:

(June 30, 2014 at 11:48 pm)blackout94 Wrote: I'd like to ask something not directly related with the argument - If I don't support abortion ethically and think it should be a last resort measure, but think it should be legal since others do not have to think alike and reality is though, does that make what? Both pro choice and pro life?

The two aren't mutually exclusive. Everyone is pro life. We just draw different lines in the sand with regard to exactly what life is and when it starts.

Those who define it as DNA must be exclusively pro life no matter what. Those who define it as a thinking, feeling being or as a viable organism draw it somewhere else.

Nobody here is condoning ending a human life. They just don't think a small bundle of cells IS human life.

Well it's still a though question to decide when we can consider an unborn child a human, this is why I can't take a position. I'll be pro choice, then, sounds more reasonable. I think all pro lifers will agree with me that any women should be able to abort in case of rape, life endangering or malformation of the fetus, these are cases that even anti abortion legislation allow frequently since they are the exception and not the norm. However if a woman should be able to abort by her own will out of irresponsibility that's a though question. I think however this kind of abortion should be a last resource, with the amount of information there is, everybody knows the necessity of using contraceptives, yes they are not 100% effective, but that's what we call the risk theory, everything has risks, if you are ready to have sex, you should look out for a possible pregnancy.

The point is, whether what she did is judged as irresponsible or not, she should have the right to be in control of her own body. A fetus should not have the right to deprive her of that right.

(July 1, 2014 at 7:47 am)Losty Wrote: Sex is good for the non-existent soul my friend. There is nothing wrong with having sex. There's something wrong with teaching young people that sex is a shameful act that they shouldn't engage in and/or talk about instead of teaching them how to have sex without getting std's and babies. Abortion isn't some fun thing that women think hey I can have all the sex I want and if I get pregnant I get to have an abortion
Regardless of how anyone feels about whether or not everyone should keep it in their pants, the fact is that people are going to have sex. This isn't a new thing or a liberal thing. What is new is that women are standing up and saying if I accidentally get pregnant, it should be my choice to have a baby or not. Getting married because you want to have sex or because you got pregnant only works out for the lucky ones. Most of the time it ends with broken unhappy families and the children are the ones who suffer the consequences.

This is true, however in my country the result backfired, women are using it as a contraceptive, some women intentionally don't use contraception and after sex they abort, it's free since the state funds everything but contraceptives cost money. I think it is shameful I'm paying for this, at least they should be paying out of their pockets. A woman even claims she had 10 abortions since legalization.

(July 1, 2014 at 9:13 am)blackout94 Wrote:

(July 1, 2014 at 7:47 am)Losty Wrote: Sex is good for the non-existent soul my friend. There is nothing wrong with having sex. There's something wrong with teaching young people that sex is a shameful act that they shouldn't engage in and/or talk about instead of teaching them how to have sex without getting std's and babies. Abortion isn't some fun thing that women think hey I can have all the sex I want and if I get pregnant I get to have an abortion
Regardless of how anyone feels about whether or not everyone should keep it in their pants, the fact is that people are going to have sex. This isn't a new thing or a liberal thing. What is new is that women are standing up and saying if I accidentally get pregnant, it should be my choice to have a baby or not. Getting married because you want to have sex or because you got pregnant only works out for the lucky ones. Most of the time it ends with broken unhappy families and the children are the ones who suffer the consequences.

This is true, however in my country the result backfired, women are using it as a contraceptive, some women intentionally don't use contraception and after sex they abort, it's free since the state funds everything but contraceptives cost money. I think it is shameful I'm paying for this, at least they should be paying out of their pockets. A woman even claims she had 10 abortions since legalization.

Err so why not contraception as free and abortions costing a minimal fee?

Oh hang on religion has something to do with this mismatch?

(July 1, 2014 at 9:13 am)blackout94 Wrote:

(July 1, 2014 at 7:47 am)Losty Wrote: Sex is good for the non-existent soul my friend. There is nothing wrong with having sex. There's something wrong with teaching young people that sex is a shameful act that they shouldn't engage in and/or talk about instead of teaching them how to have sex without getting std's and babies. Abortion isn't some fun thing that women think hey I can have all the sex I want and if I get pregnant I get to have an abortion
Regardless of how anyone feels about whether or not everyone should keep it in their pants, the fact is that people are going to have sex. This isn't a new thing or a liberal thing. What is new is that women are standing up and saying if I accidentally get pregnant, it should be my choice to have a baby or not. Getting married because you want to have sex or because you got pregnant only works out for the lucky ones. Most of the time it ends with broken unhappy families and the children are the ones who suffer the consequences.

This is true, however in my country the result backfired, women are using it as a contraceptive, some women intentionally don't use contraception and after sex they abort, it's free since the state funds everything but contraceptives cost money. I think it is shameful I'm paying for this, at least they should be paying out of their pockets. A woman even claims she had 10 abortions since legalization.

I think that might just be saying something about the system and not the practice of abortion itself.

(July 1, 2014 at 9:17 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote:

(July 1, 2014 at 9:13 am)blackout94 Wrote: This is true, however in my country the result backfired, women are using it as a contraceptive, some women intentionally don't use contraception and after sex they abort, it's free since the state funds everything but contraceptives cost money. I think it is shameful I'm paying for this, at least they should be paying out of their pockets. A woman even claims she had 10 abortions since legalization.

Err so why not contraception as free and abortions costing a minimal fee?

Oh hang on religion has something to do with this mismatch?

No no it's not religion's fault it's simply because we are in a crisis and contraception costs money, they give it free in health centers but those are cheap low quality condoms, a lot of women prefer the pill and that is not free (it costs a lot sometimes) - I agree this is the system's fault, but it's still stupid, I should be funding abortion if it is an exception. Of course the catholic church protested against abortion in any case but this was useless. And our prime minister was an atheist

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(July 1, 2014 at 9:17 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote:

(July 1, 2014 at 9:13 am)blackout94 Wrote: This is true, however in my country the result backfired, women are using it as a contraceptive, some women intentionally don't use contraception and after sex they abort, it's free since the state funds everything but contraceptives cost money. I think it is shameful I'm paying for this, at least they should be paying out of their pockets. A woman even claims she had 10 abortions since legalization.

Err so why not contraception as free and abortions costing a minimal fee?

Oh hang on religion has something to do with this mismatch?

No no it's not religion's fault it's simply because we are in a crisis and contraception costs money, they give it free in health centers but those are cheap low quality condoms, a lot of women prefer the pill and that is not free (it costs a lot sometimes) - I agree this is the system's fault, but it's still stupid, I should be funding abortion if it is an exception. Of course the catholic church protested against abortion in any case but this was useless. And our prime minister was an atheist

The catholic church can't help with funding for the contraceptives?

(July 1, 2014 at 9:40 am)Irrational Wrote: The catholic church can't help with funding for the contraceptives?

Why should they fund healthcare if they only have a spiritual mission on earth? Healthcare is the state's function, and the church is against contraceptives and pleasurable sex, why would it fund?

(July 1, 2014 at 9:46 am)blackout94 Wrote:

(July 1, 2014 at 9:40 am)Irrational Wrote: The catholic church can't help with funding for the contraceptives?

Why should they fund healthcare if they only have a spiritual mission on earth? Healthcare is the state's function, and the church is against contraceptives and pleasurable sex, why would it fund?

Exactly my point. They could make things easier, but they don't. They have to be against BOTH abortion and contraception.