(July 1, 2014 at 10:59 am)blackout94 Wrote:

(July 1, 2014 at 10:58 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: I'm sorry if you've said this before, but where do you live again?

Portugal. Can you spell massive economic and financial crisis? Worse than us is only Greece.

Is religion as influential in politics as it is in the US? I remember you saying your prime minister was an atheist, any idea why so much of the population is against abortion?

(July 1, 2014 at 4:53 am)ManMachine Wrote:

(June 17, 2014 at 4:22 pm)Chuck Wrote: Bullshit. The dandriff sloughing off your head is genetically complete in its information. You don't see you nursing every flake of dead skin you shed.

I keep jars of it ... and other people's.

(July 1, 2014 at 9:10 am)blackout94 Wrote: Well it's still a though question to decide when we can consider an unborn child a human, this is why I can't take a position. I'll be pro choice, then, sounds more reasonable. I think all pro lifers will agree with me that any women should be able to abort in case of rape, life endangering or malformation of the fetus, these are cases that even anti abortion legislation allow frequently since they are the exception and not the norm.

Todd Akin, Representative of Missouri and prominent anti-choice advocate, said “It [pregnancy resulting from rape] seems to be, first of all, from what I understand from doctors, it’s really rare. If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut the whole thing down.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/21/us/pol....html?_r=0

" "Indiana Republican Senate candidate Richard Mourdock
Mourdock was asked during the final minutes of a debate whether abortion should be allowed in cases of rape or incest.
He replied: “I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that’s something God intended to happen.” "
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/101...z36EFGZgVA

Representative Trent Franks (AZ) wants to ban all abortions because “The incidence of rape resulting in pregnancy are very low.”

Barbara Listing, the president of Right to Life Michigan, thinks if abortion is legal it should cost extra. “It’s simply, like, nobody plans to have an accident in a car accident, nobody plans to have their homes flooded. You have to buy extra insurance for those.”

The last two quotes above from this link:
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/11448...liferating


As nice as it is to think anti-choicers are reasonable people who would allow abortions in cases of rape or incest, there is at least a small, extremely vocal, politically well-situated group of them with a lot of influence who think all abortion, regardless of circumstances, are wrong and every pregnancy is God's gift to the mother.

(July 1, 2014 at 11:02 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(July 1, 2014 at 10:59 am)blackout94 Wrote: Portugal. Can you spell massive economic and financial crisis? Worse than us is only Greece.

Is religion as influential in politics as it is in the US? I remember you saying your prime minister was an atheist, any idea why so much of the population is against abortion?

Our former prime minister described himself as an agnostic, mostly to earn votes from both sides, but I'm pretty sure he was an atheist. Regardless we left us almost bankrupt and everybody hates it. Religion is as influential as in France or Italy, there is still a predominance of Christianity (about 70%, 80% in Italy) but it isn't as influential as in the US, we do not know our politicians' religious beliefs nor does anybody care, our constitution has the principle of secularism and the political rhetoric of using god as an argument is not valid. People are against it not exactly because of Christianity per se, but because a lot of old, middle aged people and so on still share some ultra conservative ideologies from fascism back in 1974, the common person will think as abortion = Murder and is incapable of thinking about it deeper, regardless of personal religion. I don't hear people saying they are against abortion and gay marriage because of god, but mainly because it's 'murder' (Abortion) and 'disgusting and unnatural' (gay marriage). At least I can say we have successfully created an atheist association some years ago.

(July 1, 2014 at 11:06 am)blackout94 Wrote:

(July 1, 2014 at 11:02 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Is religion as influential in politics as it is in the US? I remember you saying your prime minister was an atheist, any idea why so much of the population is against abortion?

Our former prime minister described himself as an agnostic, mostly to earn votes from both sides, but I'm pretty sure he was an atheist. Regardless we left us almost bankrupt and everybody hates it. Religion is as influential as in France or Italy, there is still a predominance of Christianity (about 70%, 80% in Italy) but it isn't as influential as in the US, we do not know our politicians' religious beliefs nor does anybody care, our constitution has the principle of secularism and the political rhetoric of using god as an argument is not valid. People are against it not exactly because of Christianity per se, but because a lot of old, middle aged people and so on still share some ultra conservative ideologies from fascism back in 1974, the common person will think as abortion = Murder and is incapable of thinking about it deeper, regardless of personal religion. I don't hear people saying they are against abortion and gay marriage because of god, but mainly because it's 'murder' (Abortion) and 'disgusting and unnatural' (gay marriage). At least I can say we have successfully created an atheist association some years ago.

Huh...I can't recall ever hearing the 'homosexuality is disgusting and unnatural' argument when it wasn't religious. What kind of justification do they give, if not religious?

Blackout I think you are too gullible. Abortion is not skyrocketing in Portugal. Wikipedia says Portugal abortion rate is .009% compared to .033% in the UK, and 1.7% in the US.

Also, I think the Catholic Church has a huge impact on society and laws. You denying doesn't mean it isn't there.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Portugal

(July 1, 2014 at 10:36 am)blackout94 Wrote: Know the free contraceptives are low quality, however you cannot demand high quality contraceptives without more taxes (and currently raising taxes is impossible, they are already to high), you pay what you come to get. If you do not have quality contraceptives, at least use the low quality ones, or use 'natural' methods to stop pregnancy, even someone very poor can afford a contraceptive, some kind of pill alike contraceptive such as the arm implant are free but few women know about it, it works 99% of the time.

I'm thinking high quality contraception would be cheaper than having abortions.

(July 1, 2014 at 9:46 am)blackout94 Wrote:

(July 1, 2014 at 9:40 am)Irrational Wrote: The catholic church can't help with funding for the contraceptives?

Why should they fund healthcare if they only have a spiritual mission on earth? Healthcare is the state's function, and the church is against contraceptives and pleasurable sex, why would it fund?

Because the church has no business sticking their nose in political affairs. The church is there to guide the religious people in following god on their own free will. Not to abuse their station and try to influence laws to force people to follow their rules.

They need to either stfu or pick a side and fund it. They can't have no contraceptives and no abortion. It's not rational.

(July 1, 2014 at 9:10 am)blackout94 Wrote: I think all pro lifers will agree with me that any women should be able to abort in case of rape, life endangering or malformation of the fetus, these are cases that even anti abortion legislation allow frequently since they are the exception and not the norm.

You'd think that, but then you'd meet some pro-lifers, and discover they do not support choice, even in these cases.

(July 1, 2014 at 12:31 pm)bennyboy Wrote:

(July 1, 2014 at 9:10 am)blackout94 Wrote: I think all pro lifers will agree with me that any women should be able to abort in case of rape, life endangering or malformation of the fetus, these are cases that even anti abortion legislation allow frequently since they are the exception and not the norm.

You'd think that, but then you'd meet some pro-lifers, and discover they do not support choice, even in these cases.

There are "pro-life" advocates that are adamantly against abortion even in cases where the woman will die if she doesn't abort. Where the hell they get off claiming to be pro-life is beyond me.

(July 1, 2014 at 12:31 pm)bennyboy Wrote:

(July 1, 2014 at 9:10 am)blackout94 Wrote: I think all pro lifers will agree with me that any women should be able to abort in case of rape, life endangering or malformation of the fetus, these are cases that even anti abortion legislation allow frequently since they are the exception and not the norm.

You'd think that, but then you'd meet some pro-lifers, and discover they do not support choice, even in these cases.

And they influence views on the grey areas as well. What about a 14 year old girl getting pregnant? Or better put: what pressure would 'pro life' parents put on their pregnant 14 year old daughter?

In Holland we have State funded anonymous abortions. Best thing to ever happen to girls unlucky enough to have fundamentalist parents. They get pregnant more often because abstination is taught.