(June 30, 2014 at 6:34 pm)Blackout Wrote:

(June 26, 2014 at 12:38 am)zanOTK Wrote: So, Pickup_shonuff and I ended up discussing my faith on another thread, but it was dedicated to a different subject. So I'm starting this up here to continue the conversation.

I'm not really 100% sure what you(Pickup) want to know, so let's start there. What kind of questions do you have?

I'd like to ask what inductive or deductive evidence is there to support your religion?

I'm afraid I didn't prepare any, as I wasn't expecting for the conversation to go in this direction. I expected a few questions about the beliefs and practices of Baha'is from Pickup_shonuff and maybe a few others, and then for everyone to lose interest. If you would like, I can see what others much more educated than I have claimed the evidences for the Faith are. Other than that, all I can tell you is what caused me to join.

---

(July 9, 2014 at 8:21 am)logicalreason Wrote: Hi all!

You have two Baha'is here, a theistic Baha'i and a non-theistic Baha'i!

Holy. Shit. Not you...

Good to see you too my friend. The core of the Baha'i Faith is unity, even Baha'u'llah allowed differences among Baha'is about the station of Baha'u'llah, if the Baha'is don't argue over it. I already stated that you are a theistic Baha'i.

(June 30, 2014 at 6:34 pm)Blackout Wrote:

(June 26, 2014 at 12:38 am)zanOTK Wrote: So, Pickup_shonuff and I ended up discussing my faith on another thread, but it was dedicated to a different subject. So I'm starting this up here to continue the conversation.

I'm not really 100% sure what you(Pickup) want to know, so let's start there. What kind of questions do you have?

I'd like to ask what inductive or deductive evidence is there to support your religion?

Oh! I found this as well. It was written by someone who asked a different question, but desiring a similar answer (evidence and/or proof):

Quote:I asked 'Abdu'l-Bahá one day: "Why should I believe in Bahá'u'lláh?"



He looked long and searchingly as it seemed into my very soul. The silence deepened. He did not answer. In that silence I had time to consider why I had asked the question, and dimly I began to see that only I myself could supply the reason. After all, why should I believe in anyone or anything except as a means, an incentive, a dynamic for the securing of a fuller, deeper, more perfect life? Does the cabinet-maker' s apprentice ask himself why he should believe in the master wood-worker? He wants to know how to make these raw materials into things of beauty and usefulness. He must believe in anyone who can show him how to do that, providing he first has faith in his own capacity. I had the stuff of life. Was Bahá'u'lláh the Master Workman? If He were I knew that I would follow, even though through blood and tears. But how could I know?



I wondered why 'Abdu'l-Bahá kept silence so long. Yet was it silence? That stillness held more than words. At last He spoke. He said that the work of a Christian minister is most important. When you preach, or pray, or teach your people your heart must be filled with love for them and love for God. And you must be sincere, very sincere.




~ Howard Colby Ives, "Portals to Freedom," p. 42

It is NOT evidence, obviously. But I like what he has to say, nonetheless.

---

(July 9, 2014 at 8:45 am)logicalreason Wrote: Good to see you too my friend. The core of the Baha'i Faith is unity, even Baha'u'llah allowed differences among Baha'is about the station of Baha'u'llah, if the Baha'is don't argue over it. I already stated that you are a theistic Baha'i.

My apologies for the reaction. You are, of course, correct. However, I'm afraid I'm still not happy about your behavior on the Baha'i Forums. If you will please refrain from the rude behavior you exhibited there (such as calling me and other "theistic" Baha'is "superstitious Baha'is"), I'd appreciate it.

Sure, I won't be rude, even though I find theism to be superstition, but I was rude in BahaiForums.com because a few members (not you) tried to muscle their opinions as "official Baha'i positions", and made accusations that I have not read enough or whatever, when it is they who cannot prove the existence of supernatural gods.

(July 9, 2014 at 8:51 am)logicalreason Wrote: Sure, I won't be rude, even though I find theism to be superstition, but I was rude in BahaiForums.com because a few members (not you) tried to muscle their opinions as "official Baha'i positions", and made accusations that I have not read enough or whatever, when it is they who cannot prove the existence of supernatural gods.

Dear sir, theism is the official Baha'i position. While it is fully acceptable for you to hold a different opinion, and it was wrong for others to attempt to force you to believe otherwise, they most probably felt that you were trying to say something which simply is not true: that the official Baha'i belief is atheistic, or at the very least agnostic. I'm sure they would apologize now that things have cooled down... Well, no. They would if things HAD cooled down, but they haven't. H123 seems to have lost his ever loving mind... One of his most recent posts was a thread entitled "Shaykh Ahmad's Penis Tree." o.o So tensions are just as bad as they were before, I'm afraid. *sigh*

No, that is your opinion that theism is the official position. This is not true. The official position does not have a theology.

Let me give you an example:

The Bible clearly talks about a physical resurrection of Jesus. Anyone that argues that the Bible does not talk about a physical resurrection is fooling themselves.
But, the Baha'is nevertheless believe in a symbolic resurrection.

The moral of the story is that even if theism "seems" to be literal in Baha'i texts, it doesn't mean it really is meant to be taken literally.

Moreoever, I have presented evidence in my blog, and in the writings of other Baha'i authors, that "God" is symbolic even in straightforward Baha'i texts.

(July 9, 2014 at 9:10 am)logicalreason Wrote: No, that is your opinion that theism is the official position. This is not true. The official position does not have a theology.

Let me give you an example:

The Bible clearly talks about a physical resurrection of Jesus. Anyone that argues that the Bible does not talk about a physical resurrection is fooling themselves.
But, the Baha'is nevertheless believe in a symbolic resurrection.

The moral of the story is that even if theism "seems" to be literal in Baha'i texts, it doesn't mean it really is meant to be taken literally.

*sigh* Is this how this is going to be? Very well. Shall we take this to a private discussion? There is no need to bicker in public.

(July 9, 2014 at 9:12 am)zanOTK Wrote:

(July 9, 2014 at 9:10 am)logicalreason Wrote: No, that is your opinion that theism is the official position. This is not true. The official position does not have a theology.

Let me give you an example:

The Bible clearly talks about a physical resurrection of Jesus. Anyone that argues that the Bible does not talk about a physical resurrection is fooling themselves.
But, the Baha'is nevertheless believe in a symbolic resurrection.

The moral of the story is that even if theism "seems" to be literal in Baha'i texts, it doesn't mean it really is meant to be taken literally.

*sigh* Is this how this is going to be? Very well. Shall we take this to a private discussion? There is no need to bicker in public.

I wouldn't call it bickering, you're discussing a facet of your faith that's important to both of you..that's kinda what forums are for. Also, it's pretty educational for observers (especially dumb ones like me!).

zanOTK,

You seem to be trying to muscle your opinion on me. I already stated that you are a Theistic Baha'i. That's fine with me. Most Baha'is are theistic.

But some like me are non-theistic. Non-theistic Baha'is even existed during the time of Baha'u'llah and He wrote a Tablet about it called "The Tablet of Jamal-i-Burujirdi" and the Universal House of Justice even wrote a letter to a European Auxiliary Board Member about it, found on Bahai-library.

You seem to have a problem with my non-theism, even though I don't have a problem with your theism.