Hello all,

Yes, the state of Israel has some problems. I think the best idea and solution to the problem in controlling Israel's behavior is to treat it like a state within the United States (We may already be doing that but let's go further...unless that violates the Constitution). The founders never foresaw the recreation of Israel but if they did someone would have predicted and mentioned it in the American Constitution! I wonder why "God" did not guided one of the founder to express such a "supernatural" event? Therefore, the creation of Israel was a natural event unless of course the founders were bound to "hell"? Ok, let me stop this tangent.

(I have added more contents to some areas which were copied and pasted from another post.)

The tax dollars, which is our revenue, should be used to promote the modernization of the Middle East and not to support any type of pro-religious faction. The previous suggestion is a violation of the standing American constitution. Likewise, we should only support nations which are closely related ( or mirrored ) to our national constitution. We should, at this time, to promote the idea that nations would need to mold their objective to the support of a MODERN society because this would reduce war between societies and nations in the region. Moreover, and more importantly, MODERNIZATION would prevent the formation of any type of religious extremism in the region and pluralism would prevent any type of nationalism or exclusionary movement. Therefore, evolution and other scientific endeavors must be supported as it will eliminate extremism of any form.

For example, when the American national government expresses stipulations to individual states within the union to comply with directives to receive financial assistance, Israel should be treated in the same manner.

For instance, do not attack Palestinians or some other nation without justification or U.S. will remove financial aid. The reason why is because the U.S. has cost associated with military actions. What if the actions of Israel creates more problems which will, in the long run, hamper the U.S. economy.

No doubt, that Israel's enemies are a problem to the overall objective in spreading pluralistic democracies within the region. The current Islamic movements has very serious problems in accepting science and social reforms. However, there are also Jewish movements which threaten the formation of a pluralistic democracy within Israel itself.

The Islamic movements have a problem in forming a consensus and identity around science, maintaining and promoting a pluralistic society (Of course, only accepting "science" when it is used to harm others but not used in the modernization of human society. / Yes, I am aware of the scientific contributions of the Al-Andalus state which controlled the Iberian peninsula in Europe but this was the past and there are NO modern Islamic voices within these Islamic movements).

Therefore, America's allies in the region are not the standing nations in the region but segments of the people within both Israel and Muslim dominated nations who are willing to embrace a modernly scientific and pluralistic society and to peacefully co-exist with each other.

I propose that all members of Congress and the American government to evaluate my proposal for the support of ONLY those who embrace the above idea. We should withhold aid to nations, including Israel, which act unilaterally against others or who act without justification or prevent economic empowerment of any part of a nation or region.

Israel has failed to promote an alternative which is mentioned above and may have retreated in the promotion of such a state and society. There is still a chance for Israel to embrace such a concept. Gaza and other parts of Palestine need to be modernized and Palestinians who are anti-corruption and Pro-modernization need to be supported. I find it strange that Gaza is not supported, financially, by the state of Egypt ??? Why is there a missing trade route? I see, Israel is blockading them ???

America has a problem with Christian zealots as well who BLINDLY support Israel and think a "supernatural" agenda is guiding events in the region. Look zealots, if you think Israel is guided by a supernatural entity then why support the state of Israel BLINDLY ??? The support of Israel is evidently secular and nothing is supernaturally attached to it unless it is interpreted as such.

NOTE: I have ignored an exhaustive religious explanation or evidence from religious texts because we should evaluate the situation as if these people are babies just born who are not conscious of religious identities but act as human beings. I am aware how Muslim's think of the situation and I think some Jews are not as extreme. Also, not all Christians are zealots but are rational. We just need to find and support rational individuals from both sides and they need to govern the societies.

I don't think we should have any "national objectives" in Israel or anywhere else in the mid-east. Let them rot in whatever way best suits them.

GalacticBusDriver,

Your solution or option may be the best alternative so we could all figure out if there is a "supernatural" connection with the state of Israel. I was thinking about that and it is the reason why I provided an option of leaving Israel alone.

Yes, leaving Israel alone may be the best alternative. I was thinking if the Muslims won and defeated Israel would they still want to attack America ???

Actually, it would be a reasonable idea to keep our tax dollars and invest in alternative energies also. No money to Israel and no money to Palestine and no investment in Saudi Arabia and no interference in Egypt...until the situation creates a critical mass. We will just wait and see what happens to Israel and then if the Muslims continue to threaten America then we will react. It may be the best option and probably be not giving Israel money they will be forced to treat their neighbors reasonably?

Conservative shithead, Pat Buchanan, once called the US Congress the "Israeli-occupied zone."

It's the only thing in his life that Buchanan ever got right.

You realize that what you're effectively advocating is the destruction of Israeli and a slaughter of Jews not seen on a scale since the Holocaust, correct?

Boru

(July 11, 2014 at 7:18 pm)CristW Wrote: Yes, the state of Israel has some problems.

True that.

Quote:The tax dollars, which is our revenue, should be used to promote the modernization of the Middle East and not to support any type of pro-religious faction.

Also good.

Quote: Likewise, we should only support nations which are closely related ( or mirrored ) to our national constitution. We should, at this time, to promote the idea that nations would need to mold their objective to the support of a MODERN society because this would reduce war between societies and nations in the region.

Bear in mind, Israel is the closest thing to a modern, US-like nation in the area. Admittedly, this has more to say about the failings of the Middle East than anything positive about Israel.

Quote:Moreover, and more importantly, MODERNIZATION would prevent the formation of any type of religious extremism in the region and pluralism would prevent any type of nationalism or exclusionary movement.

Because that worked so well for the UAE; where the citizens have a welfare state that seems utopian compared to even Europe, but live under a criminal code that's only slightly less repressive than Saudi Arabia.

Quote:For example, when the American national government expresses stipulations to individual states within the union to comply with directives to receive financial assistance, Israel should be treated in the same manner.

So, you want to put Israel under sanctions? Because here's what always happens when countries are put under sanctions: hundreds of thousands of people starve, the country in question is plunged into poverty, and the country in question NEVER changes their ways. (See Iraq between the Gulf Wars, Cuba, and North Korea)

Quote:For instance, do not attack Palestinians or some other nation without justification or U.S. will remove financial aid.

Bear in mind, they will ALWAYS give some sort of justification, no matter how bullshit it is. That's how this sort of thing happens.

Quote:However, there are also Jewish movements which threaten the formation of a pluralistic democracy within Israel itself.

Once again, it's still the closest thing to a pluralistic democracy in the area. It's still not saying much, of course.

Quote:I propose that all members of Congress and the American government to evaluate my proposal for the support of ONLY those who embrace the above idea.

Then why post it here and not on We the People? If gets enough signatures, it's almost guaranteed a reply from Obama's people, eventually, at least.

Quote:We should withhold aid to nations, including Israel, which act unilaterally against others or who act without justification or prevent economic empowerment of any part of a nation or region.

By this logic, of course, should we withhold aid from ourselves because of what we did to Iraq?

Quote: Gaza and other parts of Palestine need to be modernized and Palestinians who are anti-corruption and Pro-modernization need to be supported. I find it strange that Gaza is not supported, financially, by the state of Egypt ???

Yes, the Three-State solution is the most plausible solution to the whole Israel/Palestine clusterfuck at this point.

Quote:Bear in mind, Israel is the closest thing to a modern, US-like nation in the area.

Israel is the mid-east equivalent of apartheid South Africa.

Boru,

I am NOT advocating the slaughter of a group of people just because they are Jewish. This is further from the truth. The Jewish people are not protected just because they are Jewish, they are protected because they come close to the MIRROR PRINCIPLE in the region. They are more closer in upholding some of the principles in the U.S. constitution. Nevertheless, they may be practicing a form of apartheid towards Arabs. Nevertheless, some people believe they are protected by a "supernatural" entity.

I didn't vote. I want US aid money to buy influence over their corrosive foreign policy so that we can stop them building "settlements" which occupy formerly Palestinian lands. If Israel will not dance to our tune, we should stop paying the piper.

(July 12, 2014 at 8:40 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Bear in mind, Israel is the closest thing to a modern, US-like nation in the area.

Israel is the mid-east equivalent of apartheid South Africa.

Be that as it may, it's still got a better human rights record than any of its neighbours. It's still horrible, but, given that only Jordan and the West Bank separates Israel from Saudi Arabia, which uses the death penalty for such offenses as adultery, sodomy (even within marriage), being a non-Muslim, fornication, burglary and theft, it really seems less bad by comparison.

Granted, I have long since washed my hands of the whole Israeli-Palestinean clusterfuck.