The American objective for tax dollars being used to support Israel?

[Minimalist]

it really seems less bad by comparison.

Why? Because they use an army and jet aircraft to murder civilians instead of suicide bombers?

Terrorists can wear uniforms.

[Ryantology]

You realize that what you're effectively advocating is the destruction of Israeli and a slaughter of Jews not seen on a scale since the Holocaust, correct?

Boru

I'd rather pay to resettle their entire population in the United States, or another country of their choosing, where they can live in much greater safety and we don't have to waste our blood and treasure on an escapade which is pointless and dangerous and far more costly than any benefits justify.

[Ravenshire]

I'd rather pay to resettle their entire population in the United States, or another country of their choosing, where they can live in much greater safety and we don't have to waste our blood and treasure on an escapade which is pointless and dangerous and far more costly than any benefits justify.

But, but... Gawd gave them the promised land! That little patch of desert is theirs by gawd given right!!!

Now, if only they could produce a deed of title for it.

We need to get the fuck out of the middle east until and unless one of those ass backwards, shit-hole counties can actually threaten us or one of our actual allies and even then, only of they do.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Boru,

I am NOT advocating the slaughter of a group of people just because they are Jewish. This is further from the truth. The Jewish people are not protected just because they are Jewish, they are protected because they come close to the MIRROR PRINCIPLE in the region. They are more closer in upholding some of the principles in the U.S. constitution. Nevertheless, they may be practicing a form of apartheid towards Arabs. Nevertheless, some people believe they are protected by a "supernatural" entity.

You don't seem to grasp what the surrounding Arab states would do if US (and, to a lesser extent, German) aid disappeared from Israel's coffers.

I'm no fan of Israel, but the impending mass slaughter which would happen if your plan were enacted turns my stomach.

Boru

[Cato]

So tired of this shit. Fuck 'em all...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCbfMkh940Q

[CristW]

Boru,

I was the one advocating they totally accept the principles of democracy! ...when they accept OUR MONEY! I am saying that any state could actually accept the JEFFERSONIAN idea of democracy! To say that if they do not receive our money and they will collapse is not our fault. They will have to conform because it will help the whole region to change for the better. Furthermore; when they change their policy, towards Arabs, it will help reduce military adventures into the region. By the way, I am the only one who voted the other option rather than ADVOCATING that they receive no aid no matter the conditions. In other words, for them to receive aid there should be CONDITIONS for them to receive any tax dollars.

If given that it is inevitable that the ARAB VOTE is skewed towards Islamic extremists then the U.S. government(and Israel) is doing something wrong in policy. Of course, Israel could defend themselves but without our aid (both financial and military assistance).

I think it is best that a new American political party is formed which advocates that Israel "MIRROR" a new plan for the region when they receive financial aid because it would reduce military expenditure for the U.S. treasury. When they do accept it then we will support them because they would be an extension of our overall policy. No doubt, Israel will be dependent on the American nation. Currently, it seem Israel does what it wants without accountability, disclosure, and cooperation! Their actions endangers us and creates more financial burden and increases the national debt!

[CristW]

Boru,

The best policy as the current condition stands, something which I accept should exist:

1. The state of Israel should and will exist.
2. The state of Israel should defend itself against any military aggression.

The best policy with added conditions:

1. The state of Israel should follow a Jeffersonian democracy throughout the region.
2. The state of Israel (with America and Europe and other nations) support Palestinian candidates which "mirrors" Jeffersonian democracy.
3. The state of Israel should follow and support, the separation of religion and state.
4. The state of Israel should promote trade with all its neighbors even if arab/muslim states are rejecting the offer.
5. The state of Israel should promote the elimination of nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction. Israel should promote and follow the implementation of alternative energies.

Note: with these conditions it will eliminate impetus for other states in the region in pursuing aggressive policies which endanger Israel and others.

[John V]

The third option seems ignorant. Surveys vary depending on the exact wording, but about half of Jews in Israel are secular in their beliefs and only Jewish culturally. you guys should be more supportive of them than Christians are.

[CristW]

alpha male,

Thanks but the other half need to know the "conditions".

[Anomalocaris]

You realize that what you're effectively advocating is the destruction of Israeli and a slaughter of Jews not seen on a scale since the Holocaust, correct?

Boru

One might point out that had Israel not been brought into existence in the first place, neither Jews nor Isreal would likely face even this slim possibility of a problem now.

Isreal is an attempt to solve a problem that had already been brought to a conclusion by world war two by trampling upon and at the expense of those who never had any major part in the problem at all.

---

Boru,

The best policy as the current condition stands, something which I accept should exist:

1. The state of Israel should and will exist.
2. The state of Israel should defend itself against any military aggression.

The best policy with added conditions:

1. The state of Israel should follow a Jeffersonian democracy throughout the region.
2. The state of Israel (with America and Europe and other nations) support Palestinian candidates which "mirrors" Jeffersonian democracy.
3. The state of Israel should follow and support, the separation of religion and state.
4. The state of Israel should promote trade with all its neighbors even if arab/muslim states are rejecting the offer.
5. The state of Israel should promote the elimination of nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction. Israel should promote and follow the implementation of alternative energies.

Note: with these conditions it will eliminate impetus for other states in the region in pursuing aggressive policies which endanger Israel and others.

I have the opposite view.

The modern state of Israel should never have existed. Its imposition was a blunder of criminal and self-defeating callousness masquarding as compassion.

In the long run, social, political and economic advantages come and go. Demographic advantage is likely to endure. However much Israel seems invincible before the Arabs today, the advantages that made Israel so are likely to be transient. The advantages of the Arabs in geography and population would be much more enduring.

So regardless of how much it can aggrandize itself in the name of security today, I think Israel's practiccal chance of surviving over a span of several centuries would depends upon Arab good will and strong economic interdependency with the Arab world. Without Arab good will its chances of long term survival would be slim. In fact the more it aggandize itself now, the slimmer that chance becomes in the future.

Now that it does exist, humanitarianism and principle of least additional damage argues that it should only be supported in its self preservation if it can do so without additionally aggrandizing itself at the direct expense of countries around it and therefore at the indirect expense of the any state (which includes the US) that has a strong stake in reasonably good relationships with these countries.