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RE: Death Penalty
July 18, 2014 at 9:44 am
(July 18, 2014 at 9:42 am)Tonus Wrote: (July 18, 2014 at 8:19 am)Blackout Wrote: Can I ask how does the US get so many sentences wrong? Is there a cause? Crime investigation isn't easy. Crime scenes tend to be very messy and often just as uncooperative as any prospective witnesses. Human memory is a very fickle and unreliable thing, even if we assume that the witnesses to a crime are indeed witnesses and are telling the truth. Confessions are shockingly easy to obtain, sometimes even when the police aren't trying to force one out of a person. Even with more modern methods of crime scene investigation and forensics, it's not uncommon for evidence to point at the wrong person and for innocent people to become suspects or be convicted of a crime they had no part in.
This uncertainty is exacerbated when the crimes are shocking or frightening, because there is considerable pressure on the police to show that they're making progress towards solving it and bringing the perpetrator(s) to justice. And if the crime is horrifying enough, there is added pressure to apply the death penalty (in those states that have it). The desire to seek closure in those instances makes it very easy for the public to accept that John Doe is definitely the guy, regardless of how thin the case might be, and thus the prosecutors are under pressure to make sure the case holds up. In those instances where we might be applying the ultimate punishment, there could be immense pressure to getting it done, as oppose to getting it right. What a shame. Can I ask if witness evidence is allowed for the death penalty? If so I find it repulsive, testimonial evidence is so volatile and subjective that it shouldn't be allowed for the most serious criminal offenses
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RE: Death Penalty
July 18, 2014 at 9:53 am
(July 18, 2014 at 9:44 am)Blackout Wrote: What a shame. Can I ask if witness evidence is allowed for the death penalty? If so I find it repulsive, testimonial evidence is so volatile and subjective that it shouldn't be allowed for the most serious criminal offenses I'm not entirely sure how the rules work for that. Witness testimony is usually part of the case made by both sides and must be considered by the jury when deliberating. I don't know if there are instructions for them to give more weight to evidence or to witness testimony or if they are left to determine that on their own.
However, the sentencing for a crime is separate from the determination of innocence or guilt. For death penalty crimes there is a separate deliberation if the jury returns a guilty verdict, where it is then decided if the death penalty will be among the options that the judge can apply when sentencing the guilty party/parties. This may include testimonials from family/friends of the victim(s), which are often very emotional and disturbing and can have a huge impact on the proceedings.
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RE: Death Penalty
July 18, 2014 at 9:56 am
(July 18, 2014 at 9:53 am)Tonus Wrote: (July 18, 2014 at 9:44 am)Blackout Wrote: What a shame. Can I ask if witness evidence is allowed for the death penalty? If so I find it repulsive, testimonial evidence is so volatile and subjective that it shouldn't be allowed for the most serious criminal offenses I'm not entirely sure how the rules work for that. Witness testimony is usually part of the case made by both sides and must be considered by the jury when deliberating. I don't know if there are instructions for them to give more weight to evidence or to witness testimony or if they are left to determine that on their own.
However, the sentencing for a crime is separate from the determination of innocence or guilt. For death penalty crimes there is a separate deliberation if the jury returns a guilty verdict, where it is then decided if the death penalty will be among the options that the judge can apply when sentencing the guilty party/parties. This may include testimonials from family/friends of the victim(s), which are often very emotional and disturbing and can have a huge impact on the proceedings. Meh here the jury doesn't have a lot of power so I can't comment on that, but I can say the victims shouldn't have a weight in the sentence, the sentence should be decided by the court as being the best option for society, not really because the victim is sad and wants 'justice'. It violates the principle of impartiality. In my country it is clear that the system is not there for the victim, but for the whole society, the victim doesn't have a saying on the sentence. At most, the exterior conduct and the relation between the criminal and victim can have relevance from an objective standpoint (example, if they are first degree relatives the crime is considered more serious)
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RE: Death Penalty
July 19, 2014 at 1:49 am
(July 16, 2014 at 11:13 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I don't know, I'm also against the death penalty...but if we're going to go through with it..hiding it behind a black curtain doesn't sound like a very good idea.
I mean, you watch the news polaris..you've seen what we (as in the state) do when we think that no eyes are upon us, eh? IMO, shit probably ought to be on PBS. At least then we'd have a very specific idea of what we're talking about when we say we're for it or against it. You want me to hit somebody over the head with a brick? Fine, but you have to watch me do it.
When European society had public executions, it just increased the peoples' desire for more blood.
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RE: Death Penalty
July 19, 2014 at 2:05 am
(July 17, 2014 at 5:05 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Reduce the egregious number of appeals. I realize that death is permanent, and we do sometimes make mistakes, but the process just goes too far. Sentencing someone to death should not cost more than sitting them in prison for 50+ years. That's rediculous.
How many innocent people are you willing to kill to enable this vision of yours?
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RE: Death Penalty
July 19, 2014 at 2:08 am
On reducing the appeal process, didn't a judge recently rule that it was unconstitutional that California had a 10-year-long death row process?
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RE: Death Penalty
July 19, 2014 at 2:14 am
(This post was last modified: July 19, 2014 at 2:15 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(July 19, 2014 at 1:49 am)Polaris Wrote: When European society had public executions, it just increased the peoples' desire for more blood. I doubt it, the desire was most likely already there. Either way, at least we'd be openly bloodthirsty. Honesty, bud..honesty......
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RE: Death Penalty
July 19, 2014 at 2:15 am
(July 19, 2014 at 2:08 am)Polaris Wrote: On reducing the appeal process, didn't a judge recently rule that it was unconstitutional that California had a 10-year-long death row process?
Yes. And his solution was to declare the DP unconstitutional. The article is discussed somewhere around here.
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RE: Death Penalty
July 19, 2014 at 9:28 am
(July 19, 2014 at 2:05 am)Minimalist Wrote: (July 17, 2014 at 5:05 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Reduce the egregious number of appeals. I realize that death is permanent, and we do sometimes make mistakes, but the process just goes too far. Sentencing someone to death should not cost more than sitting them in prison for 50+ years. That's rediculous.
How many innocent people are you willing to kill to enable this vision of yours?
I'm willing to admit that no system is perfect, but as long as mistakes are few and ever shrinking, than we're doing something right.
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RE: Death Penalty
July 19, 2014 at 10:14 am
I have always been unsure if I am pro death penalty or not. For the most part I am against but then I here about those horrible people that kill/torture children and I think some people don't deserve to live. What if we had a maximum number of people that we could kill every year like 5 so then only the worst crimes would receive this penalty.
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