"Krauss style creation by quantum fluctuation is highly speculative"

Understood.

"Where is the same mechanism used to support the idea of god?"

Simple Selfhood of Bahaullah. We have pictures of him, his writings, his pens, his shoes, robes, hats, comb, nail clippings, hair samples...etc. He is even buried in a known location now in Israel.

"It's okay to admit, we all know there isn't one which is why people are forced to define god into existence rather than demonstrate god."

Agreed. I reject all logical proofs of God, the atheist responses are stronger.

"Saying god is the cause of his own creation is just an arbitrary assertion designed to dismiss the real problem of an infinite causal chain."

Agreed. I did not assert this. Bahai marketing materials says this, I agree. I do not believe the Baha'i marketing material information. I am reading Bahaullah directly without that filter. Bahai marketing material targets theists.

If some of the people on here are anything like me, its worth quoting some of the article here then linking the rest. I don't usually like to chase down links unless its something interesting.

(July 23, 2014 at 12:35 pm)logicalreason Wrote: Simple Selfhood of Bahaullah. We have pictures of him, his writings, his pens, his shoes, robes, hats, comb, nail clippings, hair samples...etc. He is even buried in a known location now in Israel.

This helps with claims that Bahaullah existed, but says nothing about the existence of god.

Insanity, nothing really there in the link, I think we just covered it all here.

Cato, yes. I think you're right.

Having studied QM, this stuff really really pisses me off. Many years spent studying it, just to be able to understand very simple quantum systems and/or particle interactions, yet these fuckwits think 2 minutes reading the internet lets them explain away the entire universe.

Luckily there is no QM in the article, just a vague statement

Quote:Many people today are well beyond the “logical” explanations of a God, due to the discoveries of Quantum Physics and String Theory, which conclude that the universe comes about by itself and the question “what is before time” is invalid to begin with. It is like dividing by zero. There is no such thing as “before time”. Baha’u’llah says His greatest proof is His Own Self. This declaration is similar to Quantum Physics, that it came about due to its own self (Quantum Fluctuations).

So something some guy said sounds a bit like QM, as long as you have no understanding of QM. This stuff is just completely meaningless.

If you want to say "God exists because I say God exists" just fucking say it.

OP, since you are a baha'i, I'd like to ask you what evidence is there to prove the baha'i faith is genuine and truthful? This is something no baha'i has yet answered. I'm interested.

Dear FreeTony,

I am not trying to do a mumbo-jumbo Deepak Chopra on you from reading a few posts on QM. I saw the debate with Sam Harris he crushed Chopra, and then so did Physicist Leonard Mlodinow. I studied physics in college I am aware how difficult it is, let alone Quantum Physics. Even physicists can't really understand it yet. I didn't say anything about God. I simply said Bahaullah exists.

Blackout,

not sure if I understand your question. Baha'u'llah claims his *greatest* proof is his own self. This is pretty honest and straightforward proclamation if you ask me. It is a genuine statement, and quite truthful. What am I missing in your question? I don't feel that the evangelical Baha'i marketing material you come across on the internet really tell you the "unveiled" picture of Bahaullah. I consider that stuff to be veils as they (the marketing material) only claim to target theists.

Quote:not sure if I understand your question. Baha'u'llah claims his *greatest* proof is his own self. This is pretty honest and straightforward proclamation if you ask me. It is a genuine statement, and quite truthful. What am I missing in your question? I don't feel that the evangelical Baha'i marketing material you come across on the internet really tell you the "unveiled" picture of Bahaullah. I consider that stuff to be veils as they (the marketing material) only claim to target theists.

You seem to be dodging the question. I'm asking why should I adhere to the baha'i religion... It's a very simple and non complex question.

By your logic, anyone who claims to be holy or divine is worthy of being followed by a group of believers.

If I proclaimed to be god's hand on earth, would people create a religion around me?

I'm asking what evidence is there that the baha'i god exists, and not merely belief or faith.

(July 23, 2014 at 5:04 pm)Blackout Wrote:

Quote:not sure if I understand your question. Baha'u'llah claims his *greatest* proof is his own self. This is pretty honest and straightforward proclamation if you ask me. It is a genuine statement, and quite truthful. What am I missing in your question? I don't feel that the evangelical Baha'i marketing material you come across on the internet really tell you the "unveiled" picture of Bahaullah. I consider that stuff to be veils as they (the marketing material) only claim to target theists.

You seem to be dodging the question. I'm asking why should I adhere to the baha'i religion... It's a very simple and non complex question.

By your logic, anyone who claims to be holy or divine is worthy of being followed by a group of believers.

If I proclaimed to be god's hand on earth, would people create a religion around me?

I'm asking what evidence is there that the baha'i god exists, and not merely belief or faith.

Where can I sign up to be a Blackoutian?

(July 23, 2014 at 5:05 pm)StealthySkeptic Wrote:

(July 23, 2014 at 5:04 pm)Blackout Wrote: You seem to be dodging the question. I'm asking why should I adhere to the baha'i religion... It's a very simple and non complex question.

By your logic, anyone who claims to be holy or divine is worthy of being followed by a group of believers.

If I proclaimed to be god's hand on earth, would people create a religion around me?

I'm asking what evidence is there that the baha'i god exists, and not merely belief or faith.

Where can I sign up to be a Blackoutian?

In my case you won't sign up for anything, after I conquer the entire world you will either worship me or be executed, so there's not much of a choice. And at least you will be worshipping someone real