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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
August 13, 2014 at 2:39 pm
(August 13, 2014 at 2:30 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: (August 12, 2014 at 6:57 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: I was giving Thumpalumpacus time to provide a rebuttal, it's apparant that after almost a week he's got nothing.
Thumpalumpacus clearly asserted that faith healing doesn't exist. I posted an article from the Scientific American which would disagree.
And I posted a link showing why it should be treated skeptically. I must of missed it, care to post it again?
(August 13, 2014 at 2:30 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: As for your reliance upon eyewitness testimony, simply because it is sometimes admissible in court doesn't mean that it is accepted over other, more comprehensive forms of evidence; indeed, that was my point, which you chose to ignore.
If we were talking about just one person, I would agree. But 3 or more people all with the same testimony, is pretty compelling evidence.
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
August 13, 2014 at 2:42 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2014 at 2:43 pm by FatAndFaithless.)
(August 13, 2014 at 2:39 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: (August 13, 2014 at 2:30 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: And I posted a link showing why it should be treated skeptically. I must of missed it, care to post it again?
(August 13, 2014 at 2:30 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: As for your reliance upon eyewitness testimony, simply because it is sometimes admissible in court doesn't mean that it is accepted over other, more comprehensive forms of evidence; indeed, that was my point, which you chose to ignore.
If we were talking about just one person, I would agree. But 3 or more people all with the same testimony, is pretty compelling evidence.
I believe the point that Thump was making is that regardless of whether or not testimony is admissible in court, that's not how science works. Testimony and anecdote are not data, and when trying to determine whether or not something is factually true, testimony doesn't mean a damn thing, the evidence is what's important. The multiple of anecdote is still anecdote, and it isn't evidence or data.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
August 13, 2014 at 2:43 pm
(August 13, 2014 at 2:39 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: 3 or more people all with the same testimony, is pretty compelling evidence. 
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
August 13, 2014 at 2:44 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2014 at 2:45 pm by Cyberman.)
(August 13, 2014 at 2:42 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: I believe the point that Thump was making is that regardless of whether or not testimony is admissible in court, that's not how science works. Testimony and anecdote are not data, and when trying to determine whether or not something is factually true, testimony doesn't mean a damn thing, the evidence is what's important. The multiple of anecdote is still anecdote, and it isn't evidence or data.
Yes - this; exactly this 
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
August 13, 2014 at 2:59 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2014 at 3:06 pm by Huggy Bear.)
(August 13, 2014 at 2:42 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: (August 13, 2014 at 2:39 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: I must of missed it, care to post it again?
If we were talking about just one person, I would agree. But 3 or more people all with the same testimony, is pretty compelling evidence.
I believe the point that Thump was making is that regardless of whether or not testimony is admissible in court, that's not how science works. Testimony and anecdote are not data, and when trying to determine whether or not something is factually true, testimony doesn't mean a damn thing, the evidence is what's important. The multiple of anecdote is still anecdote, and it isn't evidence or data. No, I believe you miss the point, we are talking about evidence, like it or not eye witness testimony is evidence. What you are talking about is proving the evidence, which is a whole different animal.
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
August 13, 2014 at 3:04 pm
(August 13, 2014 at 2:59 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: (August 13, 2014 at 2:42 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: I believe the point that Thump was making is that regardless of whether or not testimony is admissible in court, that's not how science works. Testimony and anecdote are not data, and when trying to determine whether or not something is factually true, testimony doesn't mean a damn thing, the evidence is what's important. The multiple of anecdote is still anecdote, and it isn't evidence or data. No, I believe you miss the point, we are talking about evidence, like it or not eye witness testimony is evidence. What you are talking about is proving the evidence, which is a whole different animal.
Wow, you really have a bizarrely skewed idea of what scientific evidence is. Again, try to leave the courtroom analogy behind. Evidence when talking about a factual or scientific claim does NOT include anecdote, I'm sorry it just doesn't. Just like the anecdotal claims of people that have seen Bigfoot is NOT evidence that Bigfoot exists, claims about miracles or faith healing or Jaysus are NOT evidence that any of those are true.
Eyewitness testimony can be admitted as evidence in a trial of someone's guilt in a courtroom, but we are not talking about a courtroom, we're talking about scientific fact.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
August 13, 2014 at 3:04 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2014 at 3:05 pm by Cyberman.)
(August 13, 2014 at 2:59 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: No, I believe you miss the point, we are talking about evidence, like it or not eye witness testimony is evidence. What you are talking about is proving the evidence, which is a whole different animal.
Nope, we are talking about sufficient evidence. You are talking about anecdote + anecdote + eyewitness = proof. Try again.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
August 13, 2014 at 3:09 pm
(August 13, 2014 at 2:39 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: If we were talking about just one person, I would agree. But 3 or more people all with the same testimony, is pretty compelling evidence.
There are entire groups of people who claim they were abducted by aliens together, do you believe them?
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
August 13, 2014 at 3:09 pm
(August 13, 2014 at 3:04 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: (August 13, 2014 at 2:59 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: No, I believe you miss the point, we are talking about evidence, like it or not eye witness testimony is evidence. What you are talking about is proving the evidence, which is a whole different animal.
Wow, you really have a bizarrely skewed idea of what scientific evidence is. Again, try to leave the courtroom analogy behind. Evidence when talking about a factual or scientific claim does NOT include anecdote, I'm sorry it just doesn't. Just like the anecdotal claims of people that have seen Bigfoot is NOT evidence that Bigfoot exists, claims about miracles or faith healing or Jaysus are NOT evidence that any of those are true.
Eyewitness testimony can be admitted as evidence in a trial of someone's guilt in a courtroom, but we are not talking about a courtroom, we're talking about scientific fact.
Ok, answer this. What is the very first step in any scientific discovery?
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
August 13, 2014 at 3:12 pm
(August 13, 2014 at 3:09 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: (August 13, 2014 at 3:04 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Wow, you really have a bizarrely skewed idea of what scientific evidence is. Again, try to leave the courtroom analogy behind. Evidence when talking about a factual or scientific claim does NOT include anecdote, I'm sorry it just doesn't. Just like the anecdotal claims of people that have seen Bigfoot is NOT evidence that Bigfoot exists, claims about miracles or faith healing or Jaysus are NOT evidence that any of those are true.
Eyewitness testimony can be admitted as evidence in a trial of someone's guilt in a courtroom, but we are not talking about a courtroom, we're talking about scientific fact.
Ok, answer this. What is the very first step in any scientific discovery?
What a strange question.. I would say the first step would be to verify the result.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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