(August 25, 2014 at 12:32 pm)pocaracas Wrote: So, why attempt to provide these crutches in this setting?

Indeed. Jesus said it's not those who are well who need a doctor, but those who are ill.

Mark 2:17 Wrote:On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Perhaps if they could try to understand that we don't share in their sickness they'd concentrate on their own healing.

(August 25, 2014 at 12:49 pm)ShaMan Wrote:

(August 25, 2014 at 12:32 pm)pocaracas Wrote: So, why attempt to provide these crutches in this setting?

Indeed. Jesus said it's not those who are well who need a doctor, but those who are ill.

Mark 2:17 Wrote:On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Perhaps if they could try to understand that we don't share in their sickness they'd concentrate on their own healing.

Most do.... a select few come here.

(August 25, 2014 at 10:02 am)Drich Wrote: I dont get it..

That is probably the first and only real revelation you ever had.

(August 25, 2014 at 11:32 am)GalacticBusDriver Wrote: Drich, you are so full of shit. As hard as you spin I'm surprised you can still type.

What you call spinning, I have labeled as an opening post. This is my message from the beginning. It's been 44 pages and you finally get it, but rather than admit you just now got what I have been talking about from post number one of this thread. you make it out like I am the one who is back peddling, and trying to save face with why your faith failed explaination. If this explaination was indeed in my initial post, and you are just flat wrong... and can not admit it even when there is undeniable evidence. You should be asking yourself what else are you wrong about and can not admit it to yourself?

And you wonder why/how your house built on sand has crumbled.

You had a bad picture of God. One that was not redeemable in any way shape or form, so when tested your picture of God crumbled just as Christ said it would... Why does any of that supersize you? Are you so proud as to think that you were simply born into the right religion? That Sunday school really taught you everything there was to know about an infinite God? Really one hour aday, maybe two or three times a month?

What in your life have you done to that level of dedication and been successful at? Not just good but answers to life's greatest questions good at? And you wonder why God will not support what you come to Him with? Would you give a kid a full ride scholarship to where ever he wanted to go if he maxed out with a 3rd grade education? Or would you make him come up to a given level first?

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(August 25, 2014 at 12:03 pm)pocaracas Wrote:

(August 25, 2014 at 10:02 am)Drich Wrote: Alright sport lets start over fresh. What do you want to know?

Alright, game on!

Here's an excerpt from what I wrote earlier (click on the little green arrow next to my username on the quote below to go to the full post):

(August 22, 2014 at 4:08 am)pocaracas Wrote: Tell me, can you honestly say you've considered the possibility that a lot of the extraordinary phenomena you think happened to you may have been a product of your own mind, your own wishful thinking, your own imagination, your own hallucination, your own projection?

Again, with the medical problem doctors were involved. The initial and subsequent diagnosis was made by a real doctors/series of doctors and support staff. 3rd party verified through the doctors office, my friends and family who help me through it..

With, messenger no other "in your own mind" symptoms ever were present before, durning the experience, or have been since present. Because I was driving this would be considered a high functioning hallucination, these don't happen in a vacuum. There are symptoms that lead upto and preceed these types of events.
(Google it)

The hell experience again happened years before I had a complete biblical understanding of the place. I thought it to be caves of red fiery rock pits of lava and demons tormenting people in various devices. Found out it was completely different, and over time verified it through scripture.

Experienced happened before knoweledge of the experience verified it...

So to directly answer your question. Yes I have considered whether or not all of these things just happened in my head. I have since come to the conclusion no they have not, as per the reasons listed above..

Game on indeed
http://youtu.be/OTL2n65JAGo

I have a dozen or so more experiences some I am willing to share while other you need to be here with me to see for yourself. Again all of it verifiable.

---

(August 25, 2014 at 12:19 pm)Cato Wrote:

(August 25, 2014 at 10:02 am)Drich Wrote: So is it then acceptable to have a general invitation in the bible?

What about an invitation extended through another person?

Because in english these are all acceptiable forms of one person or group inviting another.

So, your answer to my assertion that God hasn't offered anything is to agree with me and claim that others have made offers on God's behalf?

If the President tells one of his people to have you over to a state dinner, are you not invited over to the White House for a state dinner by the president?

(Their is a train coming down this track Cato, you'd better be ready if you insist on backing this position.)

Quote:If the President tells one of his people to have you over to a state dinner, are you not invited over to the White House for a state dinner by the president?

Your analogy fails. If someone invites you to the White House for a state dinner, you can check if they have the authority to do so, because they would have some credentials to prove it. On top of that, no one is in any doubt that the US president exists. Someone who claims to speak for a being that has no known basis in fact is completely different.

(August 25, 2014 at 5:10 pm)Drich Wrote:

(August 25, 2014 at 12:19 pm)Cato Wrote: So, your answer to my assertion that God hasn't offered anything is to agree with me and claim that others have made offers on God's behalf?

If the President tells one of his people to have you over to a state dinner, are you not invited over to the White House for a state dinner by the president?

(Their is a train coming down this track Cato, you'd better be ready if you insist on backing this position.)

Tobie mostly took care of the substantive part of your reply. I'll add that if I wasn't specifically invited, I would consider an open dinner invite to the entire world's population total bullshit.

Consult the movie Hancock to see what I think about your fucking train.

(August 25, 2014 at 5:10 pm)Drich Wrote:

(August 25, 2014 at 12:03 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Alright, game on!

Here's an excerpt from what I wrote earlier (click on the little green arrow next to my username on the quote below to go to the full post):

Again, with the medical problem doctors were involved. The initial and subsequent diagnosis was made by a real doctors/series of doctors and support staff. 3rd party verified through the doctors office, my friends and family who help me through it..

I'm sorry, I can't remember which medical problem it was, but I know that many diagnosises (what's the plural of diagnosis?? diagnoses?) are based on a statistical analysis. Something like 90% of patients suffer one fate, so that was your diagnosis. You landed on the 10%, lucky you!
No god required.

(August 25, 2014 at 5:10 pm)Drich Wrote: With, messenger no other "in your own mind" symptoms ever were present before, durning the experience, or have been since present. Because I was driving this would be considered a high functioning hallucination, these don't happen in a vacuum. There are symptoms that lead upto and preceed these types of events.
(Google it)

Messenger? the voice that told you to go to a specific diner lost in some small town and wait for something?

Let me guess, that small town was in the United States of America? Where so many people are christian.. something christianity-related was bound to come up and you had to dive right into someone else's business and tell them what they wanted to hear, huh?
No god required.

(August 25, 2014 at 5:10 pm)Drich Wrote: The hell experience again happened years before I had a complete biblical understanding of the place. I thought it to be caves of red fiery rock pits of lava and demons tormenting people in various devices. Found out it was completely different, and over time verified it through scripture.

Experienced happened before knoweledge of the experience verified it...

Or maybe not.
You were brought up in a christian society, were you not?
You could have come across that biblical description some time in your past and payed no mind, but it got stored and then your dream resurfaced that memory.
No god required.

(August 25, 2014 at 5:10 pm)Drich Wrote: So to directly answer your question. Yes I have considered whether or not all of these things just happened in my head. I have since come to the conclusion no they have not, as per the reasons listed above..

And as I showed, it is possible that each event had elements of "in your head" and luck or statistical likelihood.... no god required in any of the cases.

(August 25, 2014 at 5:10 pm)Drich Wrote: I have a dozen or so more experiences some I am willing to share while other you need to be here with me to see for yourself. Again all of it verifiable.

To be there is kinda difficult... there's a whole ocean in between and I'm not exactly in a state where I can spend the amount of money and time required to go there.
But I'd like to hear about the others!

I can't tell you that those things happened this or that way, but I can provide you with a possible explanation where no god is required.
You can dismiss it, of course, or add further information for me to refine my possible explanation.

(August 24, 2014 at 9:15 am)Drich Wrote: i picked col sanders as an example for two reasons. Fat and faithless avatar is of col with a different head, and because he has been dead long enough that most of us were not alive when he was.

So what? Abraham Lincoln has been dead longer, and while I've seen the Colonel in real life, I have never seen Abraham Lincoln.

If you wish to argue that he isn't a historical personage because no one alive has seen him, have at it. It shows your inability to grasp the point about evidence.

(August 24, 2014 at 9:15 am)Drich Wrote: Kinda like Jesus, you know... The Son of God... So everything you can say about the col. I can say about Christ.

You should be very careful with this line of argumentation, because here's my knight's fork: you must either claim that your Jesus is fictional because no one has seen him, or that Colonel Sanders's existence is only a matter of faith.

Put another way, I've got a shitload of evidence for Colonel Sanders, and you have none -- zero -- for Jesus as Son of God.

(August 24, 2014 at 9:15 am)Drich Wrote: uh, don't look now but I have like 3 or 4 times. starting with fat and faithless and again and again to everyone else who has brought this up. Do you not read any other posts except your own?

I find what you claim as "evidence" to be laughably incomplete and unpersuasive. I'm looking for stuff not referencing the Bible, and not requiring a priori faith.

In short: real evidence, not this playacting.

a priori faith.pride of life is the sin sport. Pride in God is not. I take great pride as Paul does and I am glad to boast when the wisdom of God beats out the philosophies of man.[/quote]

No, you're doing this so you can puff your own chest up, else you wouldn't take such an arrogant and sometime insulting tone.

Also, comparing yourself to Paul is another sign of overweening egotism.

(August 24, 2014 at 9:15 am)Drich Wrote:

Quote:It's apparently escaped your notice that I didn't post it, I only quoted a Christian who had. And my comment about his winning the horseshit sweepstakes is explanation enough.

Then why quote it?

You can either pray to your god for enlightenment, or you can reread for the context, but I won't repeat myself for your sake, as you won't for me.

---

(August 25, 2014 at 10:02 am)Drich Wrote:

(August 23, 2014 at 8:28 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

I dont get it.. are you a japaneese maid who is awestruck by what I said?

---

There's a message there, but your interpretation is wrong.

You can understand the message, if you ponder it long enough. If it doesn't come right away, be patient, and don't give up; I am making it opaque in order to weed out the weak.

I'll give you a sign when you get it.

Have a good day.

(August 25, 2014 at 6:02 pm)Tobie Wrote:

Quote:If the President tells one of his people to have you over to a state dinner, are you not invited over to the White House for a state dinner by the president?

Your analogy fails. If someone invites you to the White House for a state dinner, you can check if they have the authority to do so, because they would have some credentials to prove it. On top of that, no one is in any doubt that the US president exists. Someone who claims to speak for a being that has no known basis in fact is completely different.

Your analysis failed. (Moving the goal posts) The analogy was to illustrate that an invitation can indeed be extended without direct contact, and still be considered an invitation from a given individual. Which authenticity aside, it is possible to receive an invitation from a third party concerning another individual and it still be considered from the one who extended the invitation. Like it or not you can not escape the fact that this very thing happens across cultures and across time, as it spans back before Christ.

Therefore to say you have never received an invitation from God is a falsehood, as I have extended an invitation on His behalf to you in this very thread. Your participation in this thread is acknowledgment that you are aware of it.

Authenticity of said invitation is another matter all together. One that only you and God can verify.

---

(August 25, 2014 at 6:25 pm)pocaracas Wrote:

(August 25, 2014 at 5:10 pm)Drich Wrote: Again, with the medical problem doctors were involved. The initial and subsequent diagnosis was made by a real doctors/series of doctors and support staff. 3rd party verified through the doctors office, my friends and family who help me through it..

I'm sorry, I can't remember which medical problem it was, but I know that many diagnosises (what's the plural of diagnosis?? diagnoses?) are based on a statistical analysis. Something like 90% of patients suffer one fate, so that was your diagnosis. You landed on the 10%, lucky you!
No god required.

(August 25, 2014 at 5:10 pm)Drich Wrote: With, messenger no other "in your own mind" symptoms ever were present before, durning the experience, or have been since present. Because I was driving this would be considered a high functioning hallucination, these don't happen in a vacuum. There are symptoms that lead upto and preceed these types of events.
(Google it)

Messenger? the voice that told you to go to a specific diner lost in some small town and wait for something?

Let me guess, that small town was in the United States of America? Where so many people are christian.. something christianity-related was bound to come up and you had to dive right into someone else's business and tell them what they wanted to hear, huh?
No god required.

(August 25, 2014 at 5:10 pm)Drich Wrote: The hell experience again happened years before I had a complete biblical understanding of the place. I thought it to be caves of red fiery rock pits of lava and demons tormenting people in various devices. Found out it was completely different, and over time verified it through scripture.

Experienced happened before knoweledge of the experience verified it...

Or maybe not.
You were brought up in a christian society, were you not?
You could have come across that biblical description some time in your past and payed no mind, but it got stored and then your dream resurfaced that memory.
No god required.

(August 25, 2014 at 5:10 pm)Drich Wrote: So to directly answer your question. Yes I have considered whether or not all of these things just happened in my head. I have since come to the conclusion no they have not, as per the reasons listed above..

And as I showed, it is possible that each event had elements of "in your head" and luck or statistical likelihood.... no god required in any of the cases.

(August 25, 2014 at 5:10 pm)Drich Wrote: I have a dozen or so more experiences some I am willing to share while other you need to be here with me to see for yourself. Again all of it verifiable.

To be there is kinda difficult... there's a whole ocean in between and I'm not exactly in a state where I can spend the amount of money and time required to go there.
But I'd like to hear about the others!

I can't tell you that those things happened this or that way, but I can provide you with a possible explanation where no god is required.
You can dismiss it, of course, or add further information for me to refine my possible explanation.

What makes you think that any of the evidences I have received were for you to verify the existence of God?

These are the things I needed, they weren't for you. I shared them only to one end. To show you the the Holy Spirit will Taylor an experience that you need to establish and maintain your own relationship.

I have said over and over and over and over again, that God does not deal in absolute proofs. He gives just enough for one person to establish and maintain one belief. That means each of us has to approach God on our own. Otherwise if there were absolute proof, then the one choice we have been given in this life would then be gone.

(August 25, 2014 at 9:05 pm)Drich Wrote: I have said over and over and over and over again, that God does not deal in absolute proofs.

Then he has no cause for complaint. Assuming your wolkenkuckkcuksheim story to be true, your god made me the way I am, and he knows exactly how skeptical I am, and he knows what it would take to communicate with me.

The fact that he doesn't means either a), he's a Calvinist dickhead, or b) he doesn't exist.

I'll take Occam's Razor for $500, Alex.