(September 6, 2014 at 7:21 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I suspect that God is hiding because he'd balding and a little insecure about his appearance. Makes about as much sense as any other explanation.

Boru

Or maybe, as I said in another thread, he's been massively procrastinating. I mean, come on, give the guy a break. Peace on Earth is SO HARD for an omnipotent being to do.

(September 6, 2014 at 1:17 am)StealthySkeptic Wrote: Apologies if that seemed blunt, but I don't understand why a deity who actually cares about his creations (as in, non-deistic), would operate the way you claim he does (not getting it right with one prophet, but instead having to send one every thousand years), but would not instead make his existence as obvious as the light of the Sun. (Don't try to appeal to "mysterious ways" or "free will" with me- mysterious reasons for somebody doing something for me equals no reason at all). Just because the Sun exists beyond a doubt and no sane person would claim otherwise does not mean that we have no free will.

Basically, I try to keep my thinking consistent, and since I am a skeptic don't allow for metaphors to get in the way when I investigate a scientific claim and proof for such, I take the same approach to everything in life, including religion.

It's a fascinating question, although I think you're a little quick to dismiss 'mysterious' and 'free will' as starting points.

If talking about Science as a model, there are things in Science that we don't currently know, and indeed may never, if they turn out to be too complex to understand. This doesn't mean that we should reject Science in totality. We just try to find out what we don't know, but accept our current limitations of knowledge. That's how I see my Christianity. It's uncertain, short on knowledge, constantly in need of revision and at least partly wrong. But I think bits of it are probably right, and so it makes sense to keep going.

Clearly God could make His presence clear beyond doubt. And have a legion of angels briefed to zap our backsides if we so much as think of taking a pencil home from work. But I'm not sure that's the best thing.

Would anyone actually want to be married to a Stepford Wife/Husband programmed to 'love' us? It's the humanity, with all its flaws and the distinct possibility of “No” that makes a relationship meaningful. 'Failure plus trying to do better' > 'Programmed obedience' possibly in God's eyes, and I think I begin to get that.

I will freely admit there are parts of the bible that I agree with. I just don't worship the guy due to the difference in opinions, and the existence of things that are either factually wrong or contradict each other. You want to call the moon a lesser light, and say the world hangs on nothing? That's fine. In a sense, they can both be correct if not really accurate. Saying something like showing livestock striped rods will make them give birth to striped furred young? That should be laughable even to a child.

I find it ironic coming from you, stealthy one.

God is into hiding because of the 'belief' thing. If a particular person has had an actual face to face with God, that person is no longer a believer, at that point, he knows for sure.

And knowing how much God loves believers, it wouldn't surprise me too much if the folks he actually encounters, and therefore KNOW instead of believe in him, that he then dispatches to Hell when they die since they are not believers.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

(September 7, 2014 at 12:43 pm)Vicki Q Wrote: It's a fascinating question, although I think you're a little quick to dismiss 'mysterious' and 'free will' as starting points.

If talking about Science as a model, there are things in Science that we don't currently know, and indeed may never, if they turn out to be too complex to understand. This doesn't mean that we should reject Science in totality. We just try to find out what we don't know, but accept our current limitations of knowledge. That's how I see my Christianity. It's uncertain, short on knowledge, constantly in need of revision and at least partly wrong. But I think bits of it are probably right, and so it makes sense to keep going.

Clearly God could make His presence clear beyond doubt. And have a legion of angels briefed to zap our backsides if we so much as think of taking a pencil home from work. But I'm not sure that's the best thing.

Would anyone actually want to be married to a Stepford Wife/Husband programmed to 'love' us? It's the humanity, with all its flaws and the distinct possibility of “No” that makes a relationship meaningful. 'Failure plus trying to do better' > 'Programmed obedience' possibly in God's eyes, and I think I begin to get that.

The problem with your reasoning is the concept of Hell. The obedience may not be programmed, but it is certainly compulsory, on the pain of eternal torment if it is not forthcoming in the form of belief and compliance.

In short, the fact that a "no" answer brings on eternal torture is exactly what makes a "yes" meaningless. This is love commanded under duress. There is no free-will when one's soul is held for ransom, just as an armed robbery is not a "donation."

God is hiding because he's imaginary. The God character died when the last Babylonian Emperor croaked when his empire collapsed. He's not coming back.

The answer to the "Hiding" question is the same as the answer to the "Knocking" post.

Moses knew God face to face, and even he blew it when he had to step out in faith, and speak to the Rock ( he blew it by smacking the rock ( a type of Christ) like he did before, when he was supposed to speak to it).

It is nearly like a game- and it is ALWAYS our move.
The blinders come off (or should I say- the revelation increases) as we play the game.
I hate to use the word- "Game" but another parallel escapes me.

Yes, He does "Hide" and we, like little kids playing "Hide and Seek" are supposed to seek.
Maybe that is why "Child- likeness" is commended.

Quote:If talking about Science as a model, there are things in Science that we don't currently know

Oh, please Vicki. Give it up.

Science continually seeks answers. Religion thinks it has all the answers and, when they can get away with it, will kill people who ask questions.