Quote:Does anyone study military tactics or history?

Yes. And we are singularly ill-suited to fighting guerrilla wars. Give us an actual army to face and we'll crush it. Make us have to go through this 'hearts and minds' shit and we are terribly inept.

Providing tactical air support for Iraqi/Kurdish troops is one thing. But sending an armored column into Mosul is something else. For one thing, thanks to the Iraqis, we don't have the infrastructure in place to even do it. Planes based in Turkey or in the Gulf can deliver enough death so that even the Iraqis can walk in and pile up the bodies.

(September 11, 2014 at 12:25 pm)bladevalant546 Wrote: Culturally yes and training, however they are gaining modern equipment rather quickly.

They captured 3 M1A1 Abrams tanks from the Iraqi army. They set fire to the captured tanks.

The Migs they've captured were Mig-21s. Which is 1955 technology. There is no indication they see uses for them other than a cool prop for taking selfies.

From this it seem doubtful they are inclined to avail themselves of any modern equipment that can't be fired from the shoulder or from atop a tripod.

(September 11, 2014 at 4:14 pm)A Theist Wrote:

(September 11, 2014 at 8:47 am)Cato Wrote: I'm actually opposed to any intervention.

That would be fine except that ISIS has threatened the U.S. The last time a terrorist group threatened the United States, they flew jumbo passenger planes into the Twin Towers and another one was flown into the Pentagon. It's better to fight ISIS in Iraq and Syria than it is having to fight them on our own soil.

You seem to have fallen for the fear mongering. Both the FBI and Homeland Security have recently stated that there is no credible threat of an attack on U.S. soil. Did you miss the part where I call for regional states to take care of ISIS, or did you intentionally leave it out?

(September 11, 2014 at 5:07 pm)bladevalant546 Wrote: Does anyone study military tactics or history? The very over confidence I see in this is why they can win. Also, we lost Vietnam and sort of Korea, both due to our over confidence and underestimating our enemy and several other factors.

The point is we need to take them out now, and also where in the world did you get the idea I said anything about then "over throwing" the US. All they need to do is make the Us think they are nothing and simply take over the middle east if they can that is. I will concede however the middle east is just another quagmire.

I know enough about history that I can see the people in the middle east have been killing each other for most of the past 5,000 years. The only reason they ever seem to stop is if they're united behind killing another mutual enemy (which, right now, is us). If we leave the middle east, they'll go back to fighting amongst each other. I honestly don't see any of the middle east states becoming enough of a threat to us that we should consider military intervention. The closest I can see is if one of them develops nuclear weaponry and the means to strike US targets with them, but those are both kinda long-shots.

But, as long as the wealthy defense contractors are funding multi-million dollar political campaigns, they're going to expect a return on that investment, so there's going to be a war whether we like it or not. After all, the best way for congress to justify a bloated military budget is if we're actually putting those weapons to use.

(September 11, 2014 at 5:21 pm)Chuck Wrote:

(September 11, 2014 at 12:25 pm)bladevalant546 Wrote: Culturally yes and training, however they are gaining modern equipment rather quickly.

They captured 3 M1A1 Abrams tanks from the Iraqi army. They set fire to the captured tanks.

The Migs they've captured were Mig-21s. Which is 1955 technology. There is no indication they see uses for them other than a cool prop for taking selfies.

From this it seem doubtful they are inclined to avail themselves of any modern equipment that can't be fired from the shoulder or from atop a tripod.

Well if they burned the Abrams...then they are dumb. Thanks for the information.

In either case I wish we could just get off of oil in terms of power and production so we can just leave the middle east alone.

@TaraJo

Yea Ike tried to warn us about that didn't he? I think it just crazy how much we allow the Right and left (if it even exists) control our minds.

@Minimal,

That is a tactic I think should work rather well, and I believe you when it comes to the fact the Iraqi military is well meh. I know some people who tried to train them...they simply like to ignore everything we teach them out of spite.

Another question about the right wingers who are pushing us to attack Assad and/or Isis: Don't you remember what happened last time you had that whole war-hawk mentality? You pushed us into Iraq with no good reason to invade, you had no exit strategy and we got stuck there for a decade. Haven't they learned that invading another country is a big deal? Don't you think that maybe after the huge fuck up that Iraq was, we would think things through before we tried military action again?

(September 11, 2014 at 11:43 am)Pickup_shonuff Wrote:

(September 11, 2014 at 8:39 am)Chas Wrote: Bombing the crap out of people who think public beheading is a valid political statement seems fine to me.

At least when you behead someone in the manner ISIS does you're forced to take some personal responsibility for the act of murdering another life. I wonder how many US officials have indirectly beheaded with missiles, whom no one ever gave a second thought about. You think that's MORE moral?

Did I say anything about moral?

I'm talking killing those who have no acceptable morality and are a danger to all.

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(September 11, 2014 at 1:13 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

(September 11, 2014 at 8:39 am)Chas Wrote: Bombing the crap out of people who think public beheading is a valid political statement seems fine to me.

Saudi Arabia?

I'm down with that. Take out Mecca first.

(September 11, 2014 at 8:28 pm)Chas Wrote: Did I say anything about moral?

I'm talking killing those who have no acceptable morality and are a danger to all.

Is ISIS a really danger to all? I don't feel threatened by a few thousand savages fighting a sectarian war in some remote mountains on the other side of the world. The most powerful government on the planet that acts with impunity and has proven itself willing to do whatever it wants in the interests of a small group of the wealthiest people on the other hand...

(September 11, 2014 at 7:46 pm)TaraJo Wrote: Another question about the right wingers who are pushing us to attack Assad and/or Isis: Don't you remember what happened last time you had that whole war-hawk mentality? You pushed us into Iraq with no good reason to invade, you had no exit strategy and we got stuck there for a decade. Haven't they learned that invading another country is a big deal? Don't you think that maybe after the huge fuck up that Iraq was, we would think things through before we tried military action again?

Sadly I bought it during that time, and even joined the military for it. I think we should honestly just stop using oil and maybe we can just get out of quagmire.

Quote:Don't you remember what happened last time you had that whole war-hawk mentality?

Nope. I have a senile old fuck for a senator who thinks he's a big expert on defense issues despite being wrong on everything. I doubt that the old fuck can remember which hand to hold his dick in when he takes a leak.