(June 27, 2010 at 8:36 pm)Godschild Wrote: Scott Richens I'll give you this you are clever in the way you twist the words of someone who doesn't agree with you.
Yes God has a divine plan and it requires no action on your part to be included in that plan you do not have to decide anything your birth was sufficient for you to be part of the plan. It is God's will that you would choose the plan of salvation (divine plan) but it's your choice outside of Gods will. Understand so far. Just as parents make plans for their children and have desires for their futures the childern are free to choose the life they want outside of the parents desires it's the way God works with mankind. Now God's ultimate will can not be changed and letting history run its course no matter how much evil or good history will contain is part of God's ultimate will.Yes there are things in history that would be against God's ultimate will and He has stopped them such as Hitler and Stalin trying to destroy the nation of Israel. Your choices,my choices, Min's choice, Purple Rabbits choices, everyones choices has some effect on history and because Gods divine plan includes freewill history is not set in stone. Just because God can see down through the pages of history doesn't mean He has every minute of history planned out what it does mean is that God knows how history is going to play out. So you see it's important (at least for believers) to read and study the Bible so that we can understand what is and what isn't God's ultimate will so we can know how to pray about things God will and will not allow to happen.
Those who choose God's salvation have no desire to be completely independent of God's will for their lives and the only way a christain is going to know His will for their life is through scripture and for Him to reveal His intent for our lives. I'm not making up anything and if you believe I am then go to the Bible read and study it for your self. Finally just because you do not believe in the claim that the God of the Bible is real doesn't make my argument nonsensical who are you to judge my beliefs you do not know anything about God and can not because you do not believe in the claim He's real.

Super Starr my reply to you is the same as Scott Richens so read my reply to him.

I sort of laughed when you mentioned "study and read the bible", because studying a book filled with 2000 year-old knowledge won't help ANYONE now in the present. You obviously don't understand what the bible was written for, even if you are a Christian. It was written as knowledge that could be understood back then, because obviously people weren't talking about atoms, molecules, evolution, and all of that stuff that we are understanding now. Everyone back then was talking about God's, and angels and these spirits doing things to create Earth and all of its contents, and for some reason, extremists (like you) "think" that it wasn't just a 2000 year old guess (that wasn't right in the first place), but somehow is reality. But now, we have Science to clear that up, because Science is the study of the natural world, not like how religion says it. In reality, a plan from God according to your bible isn't consistant since of other references to a "plan" that say something different, like 139:16 which causes controversy. And a belief in God or knowing that there's no God has nothing to do whether someone understands something in the bible or doesn't. It's what it says that makes it unreal.

The bible isn't about science!?!?! Wow. Breakthrough. You have to be a dumb shit to understand atheism right? I mean... it takes some serious ignorance to come up with this bullshit right?

(June 28, 2010 at 3:20 am)fr0d0 Wrote: The bible isn't about science!?!?! Wow. Breakthrough. You have to be a dumb shit to understand atheism right? I mean... it takes some serious ignorance to come up with this bullshit right?

Haha yeah.... well you're one of the only Christians I know who doesn't claim the bible has anything to do with science. I wonder if you're really a Christian at all... but then again, what is a Christian?

superstarr it is clear that you know nothing about the Bible. Psalm 139:16 does not cause controversy except in your mind. To christians this verse is quite clear but with your Bibically untrained mined I guess that's to be expected. Frodo is correct in saying the Bible is not a science text and if you had ever read it you just might come to understand that but sense you are not interested in educating your self about that which you want to argue against then why even try. By the way there is no if about it, I'm a christian and am happy to be living in a relationship with God.

(June 28, 2010 at 3:58 pm)Godschild Wrote: Bibically untrained mined

Biblically/mind without the e.

Anyway, that made me lol. It was a little too wordy for me. Not brainwashed would have sufficed.

(June 28, 2010 at 3:58 pm)Godschild Wrote: superstarr it is clear that you know nothing about the Bible. Psalm 139:16 does not cause controversy except in your mind. To christians this verse is quite clear but with your Bibically untrained mined I guess that's to be expected. Frodo is correct in saying the Bible is not a science text and if you had ever read it you just might come to understand that but sense you are not interested in educating your self about that which you want to argue against then why even try. By the way there is no if about it, I'm a christian and am happy to be living in a relationship with God.

Yet, you ignore what I told you on what the bible was written for. But oh well, your mind might as well be better off back 2000 years ago.

(June 27, 2010 at 8:36 pm)Godschild Wrote: Purple Rabbit you are correct in saying that Paul believed Jesus return would be in his life time. That was his belief early in his ministry but later in his ministry he understood that was not the truth and he understood that long before his death.

Please supply the evidence for that.

(June 27, 2010 at 8:36 pm)Godschild Wrote: Now I have a challenge for you find in the Bible where anyone spoke of a rapture of the church.
Read the book of Matthew there you will find what Jesus said about the end of time and what you want find there is anything about a rapture.

Also Paul never wrote about a rapture so this should help narrow down your search IF you decide to take my challenge.

It is not my problem that inconsistencies in the bible have led to all kind of interpretations by christians. Many traditional doctrines such as the suffering messiah, the divinity of christ, and the notion of heaven and hell are not based on the teachings of the historical Jesus. In Matthew, Mark and Luke, there's no trace of Jesus being divine, in John there is. Fact is that a vast crowd of christians belief from scripture that rapture will happen. Paul clearly believed that Jesus would return during his lifetime. To say that he changed his mind does not make an argument about when this return should happen, it discredits Paul's authority on the return that he as no other endorsed to begin with.

(June 28, 2010 at 3:59 am)Scott Richens Wrote:

(June 28, 2010 at 3:20 am)fr0d0 Wrote: The bible isn't about science!?!?! Wow. Breakthrough. You have to be a dumb shit to understand atheism right? I mean... it takes some serious ignorance to come up with this bullshit right?

Haha yeah.... well you're one of the only Christians I know who doesn't claim the bible has anything to do with science. I wonder if you're really a Christian at all... but then again, what is a Christian?

Still catching up on the thread but just thought I'd add that I agree the bible has 0 to do with science.

Purple Rabbit it's late so I'll answer half of your reply tonight and hopefully the other half tommorow night. I know there are many christians that believe that a rapture will occur and I challenge them to show me where it is in scripture and they haven't at this time. I do know the two verses that some of them will put together to come to such an idea and they are not even related to each other in that way. You are the one who brought up the rapture in your reply not another christian so I challenged you. If you knew that the scriptures do not teach about a rapture then why would you bring it up. Yes Christ's divinity, heaven and hell and the suffering Messiah are all taught by Jesus. I'll hopefully get to Paul tommorow.

(July 1, 2010 at 12:24 am)tackattack Wrote:

(June 28, 2010 at 3:59 am)Scott Richens Wrote:

(June 28, 2010 at 3:20 am)fr0d0 Wrote: The bible isn't about science!?!?! Wow. Breakthrough. You have to be a dumb shit to understand atheism right? I mean... it takes some serious ignorance to come up with this bullshit right?

Haha yeah.... well you're one of the only Christians I know who doesn't claim the bible has anything to do with science. I wonder if you're really a Christian at all... but then again, what is a Christian?

Still catching up on the thread but just thought I'd add that I agree the bible has 0 to do with science.

Yeah, yet some christians claim that Creationism according to the bible, is science. :/