(October 20, 2014 at 2:03 pm)Chuck Wrote: 1. There was no light at the time of inflation. There wouldn't be for another 300,000 years before it becomes possible for light to exist.

Correction, we got photons (quanta of light) within a fraction of a second. And we got a lot of them.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hba...lanck.html

Quote:This time period is estimated at 10^-32 seconds to 10^-5 seconds. During this period the electromagnetic and weak forces undergo the final symmetry break, ending the electroweak unification at about 10^-12 seconds.

(October 20, 2014 at 1:47 pm)Believer Wrote: Right after the Big Bang, the universe had a monstrous growth-spurt called inflation. The whole thing was over in less than a trillionth of a trillionth of a second, i know the mind can not grasp that speed. No scientist can comprehend just how quick that is.

That is exactly how you would expect the universe to react if :-

(Genesis 1:3) God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

There are a lot of unbelievable stories in the bible, but the universe is full of mystery and unbelievable stories and unproven "theories" too.

I honestly used to be a strict atheist and thought religion was absolute ludacris and people were just brainwashed. I have actually come to realise that God is the only thing that makes sense.

That a ludacrous reading of Genesis. Let's look at those verses in context shall we?

Quote:In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth, the earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

First of all before your proposed big bang theory there was a wind over the face of the waters? If the Bible is describing the big bang, what waters would those be and what atmosphere could be in motion to create a wind over them? It is only after that that god creates light. God then separates the light from the darkness and creates the first day and night. What the hell does separating the light from the dark mean?

I case you didn't get it, and most Christians gloss over it, Genesis describes not nothing before the creation but rather a void full of water:

Quote:And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so. 8 God called the dome Sky. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.

So what I'm seeing here is a void full of water which was earth out of which god created the universe. God added light which he separated temporally into day and night before there was a sky or heavens. Then god made a dome separating water from water and called what was above the dome sky.

That's nothing like what we know about the beginning of either the universe or the earth. It is nothing like the big bang.

It sounds rather more like the ancient Greek creation myth:

Quote:In the beginning there was only chaos. Then out of the void appeared Erebus, the unknowable place where death dwells, and Night. All else was empty, silent, endless, darkness. Then somehow Love was born bringing a start of order. From Love came Light and Day. Once there was Light and Day, Gaea, the earth appeared.

http://www.greekmythology.com/Myths/The_...ation.html

(October 20, 2014 at 2:16 pm)Surgenator Wrote:

(October 20, 2014 at 2:03 pm)Chuck Wrote: 1. There was no light at the time of inflation. There wouldn't be for another 300,000 years before it becomes possible for light to exist.

Correction, we got photons (quanta of light) within a fraction of a second. And we got a lot of them.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hba...lanck.html

Quote:This time period is estimated at 10^-32 seconds to 10^-5 seconds. During this period the electromagnetic and weak forces undergo the final symmetry break, ending the electroweak unification at about 10^-12 seconds.

For there to be light it must theoretically be possible for the photons to travel to a sensor. The universe of the inflation era was completely opaque. Photons are instantly reasbsorbed after formation. The universe would block all light from traveling more than nearly zero distance until recombination of electrons and protons 300,000 years later.

(October 20, 2014 at 1:47 pm)Believer Wrote: I honestly used to be a strict atheist and thought religion was absolute ludacris and people were just brainwashed.

"Say what?"

Everyone's got this pretty much covered, so I'll just point out that "unproven theories" are a contradiction in terms and do not exist.

(October 20, 2014 at 1:47 pm)Believer Wrote: Right after the Big Bang, the universe had a monstrous growth-spurt called inflation. The whole thing was over in less than a trillionth of a trillionth of a second, i know the mind can not grasp that speed. No scientist can comprehend just how quick that is.

That is exactly how you would expect the universe to react if :-

(Genesis 1:3) God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

In that case, I would have expected something more along the lines of:

And God spake, "let there be a scalar field with a potential flat enough, but a large enough value such that there can be at least 60 efoldings of expansion. Let furhermore the field value be set onto this potential such that it shall roll down while the universe expands, and perform a graceful exit, in which the scalar field shall lose its energy to all the other fields, which shall replenish the emptiness with all manner of radiation, from which all the crap can form." And there was all that stuff.

Now that would raise som eyebrows. Let there be light? Please!

Quote:
1 Oh hai. In teh beginnin Ceiling Cat maded teh skiez An da Urfs, but he did not eated dem.

2 Da Urfs no had shapez An haded dark face, An Ceiling Cat rode invisible bike over teh waterz.

3 At start, no has lyte. An Ceiling Cat sayz, i can haz lite? An lite wuz.

4 An Ceiling Cat sawed teh lite, to seez stuffs, An splitted teh lite from dark but taht wuz ok cuz kittehs can see in teh dark An not tripz over nethin.

5 An Ceiling Cat sayed light Day An dark no Day. It were FURST!!!1

What's the difference? Other than we have definite, unquestionable proof of Ceiling Cat's existence:

(October 20, 2014 at 1:47 pm)Believer Wrote: I have actually come to realise that God is the only thing that makes sense.

Of course it does! To a mind that doesn't deal well with subtlety, nuance, intrigue, investigation, the unknown... hell, all sorts of things, I bet god would make a ton of sense!

You know why that is? I'll give you a hint: it's not because god is an actual answer.

It's because god is a panacea. Of course things make sense when you plug god into them, because god can do magic and magic works as an excuse for anything. You can plug god magic into any question that doesn't have an answer and it works, in that technically "guy who can do anything" is a sufficient cause for most everything, but that doesn't mean it's actually true, and it doesn't mean that the god proposition actually makes sense, if you look into it a little deeper.

Actually think about it for a second: god makes sense to you? Why? So you've got the "what?" of any given situation when you plug in god, but where's the rest of it? In this "let there be light" fuckery you talk about, do you know how god created light? Do you know why? Do you understand any of the mechanisms behind god's ability to do these things, are those mechanisms even mentioned in the bible, and if you don't how can you say such a thing is even possible?

When you say that god makes sense, what I hear is this: "My chosen answer provides the most simplistic, meaningless possible solution to an given problem, and I have chosen to accept this as sufficient explanation."

A strict atheist, you say?

(October 20, 2014 at 1:47 pm)Believer Wrote: Right after the Big Bang, the universe had a monstrous growth-spurt called inflation. The whole thing was over in less than a trillionth of a trillionth of a second, i know the mind can not grasp that speed. No scientist can comprehend just how quick that is.

I doubt if the 10^-24 seconds figure came out of the bible. It was probably one of these 'uncomprehending' scientists that came up with that figure. However your use of it seems fuzzy. Since the expansion of the universe has not stopped -indeed continues to accelerate- the BB isn't exactly "over".

Of course a lot happened at the beginning which is truly mind blowing. But I fail to see how imagining something even grander and more mysterious than the BB itself adds to your sense of understanding. What's more, while we have all the observable evidence available to extrapolate to the BB, all we have for god is a leap of faith. Period. Full stop.