(October 25, 2014 at 1:33 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: So... who is Lucifer?

Mark Pellegrino.

(October 25, 2014 at 1:33 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: So... who is Lucifer?

Lucifer is a fictional nasty CAT character in the Disney Animated Movie "Cinderella"

(October 25, 2014 at 1:33 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: So... who is Lucifer?

Obama, duh

Lucifer IS Yahweh. Don't you see he suffers from dissociative identity disorder? Do you really think anyone else would rebel against an omnipotent being? Just see OT vs NT, the personality problem is quite apparent.

(October 25, 2014 at 1:33 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: So... who is Lucifer?

Christians haven't fully decided on that. The theory I hear most often is that Lucifer=Satan=the Devil and is the person of evil and that all opppsition to God is encouraged or caused by him, directly or indirectly. (indirectly would be that he made us inclined to sin but we did the bad things.)

Some Christians will go on to say that Allah and pagan gods are the devil. Or are puppets of the devil as are (Obama and anyone they don't like.)

I have not studied such matters enough to have a personal opinion on the matter, but I'm confident that there is some sort of evil that fights with God's goodness, and I am sure that people who say Obama is.the devil incarnate need a reality check.

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Oh, and an extra thought to scare fundamentalist kids with this Halloween:

As mentioned, the traditional idea is that one third of the angels turned into demons. Well... They also say everyone has a guardian angel, right?

That's a lot of demons. It's kind of creepy, really. If you think about it... If that's true, then if I'm with a friend, there are two angels and one demon present. Because it's a 2:1 ratio, right?

The idea of a demon being present anytime I'm making out with someone is kinda creepy.

(October 25, 2014 at 11:24 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: Demons were fallen angels and angels were the same race or had similar powers to god, otherwise why would satan, an angel who knew god best, think he could win.
Think about it, only someone that thinks they have a chance to be victorious would make that move and that dude had all the inside info.
So if we were demons I would fly to work with my supermanish powers and shoot lasers out my eyes at people I didn't like because I would have like X-man powers and be immortal.

Again, under the rules of what if... I will be taking the devil's advocate role. (Ironic huh)

As such may I ask what makes you think we do not have these powers?

It's all just a matter of perspective. God to those who do not know any better only works in the ways of the unexplained. But as we develop we slowly regain what would be like magical powers akin to those of God.

The only difference is God is infinite we are finite. We are subject to His will. His will in this senerio was to partially blind us. Blind us so we may have a fresh start so that we may know where our heart truly lie in relation to Him..

My thoughts are that some of the fallen/us may feel we were not all openly rebellious and maybe some of us were just following orders, or caught up in the various circumstances surrounding the fall. This life this world is to seperate the wheat and chaff, the sheep from the goats those who love and wish to serve God from those who do not.

This also elimates the idea that none of us were asked to be born, and why some are born into circumstances that are more conducive in finding attonement and others are not.

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(October 25, 2014 at 12:28 pm)ThomM Wrote: And you see - that is one of the most basic reasons WHY people reject YOUR religion as nonsense - the claim that the god is PERFECT in all ways - and Almighty - all knowing - etc.

There are a number of CONTRADICTIONS to that

If the god were all good - evil would not exist - since the god created EVERYTHING - there is NO other choice for a creator - the devil specifically does not have that power. Yet Evil (the religion being one of that) - does exist.

IF the god were almighty - then there is NO conflict between the God and evil that the god would not win. So - then why does evil exist

1 - There is no god - so evil and good do not overpower each other
2 - There is a god who WANTS evil to exist - hardly a thing I would want to worship
3 - The god cannot overcome evil - why call it a god then?

Let us take up the claim of religion -
1 - We are responsible for our own actions but not those of others including our parents and family. That statement is all over the bible - but then it would eliminate the idea of original sin - since None of US sinned at that time. Certainly the christ cannot save of from sins that we have the FREE WILL not to commit - even if the god THINKS we will.

2 - There are children too young to sin - they are those who have not reached the age of reason or responsibility. Yet - Tens of thousands of these children are born every year - with missing limbs, missing or conjoined body organs, with quite a number of horrible fatal diseases,
or are simply born but not taken care of by their parents.

Free will says that sin does not happen until one actually uses the free will to do it - the claim that a child WILL sin denies that FREE WILL MUST include the ability to choose to NOT do something even the god already knows - or it is NOT FREE WILL.

And so - there is NO justification for an innocent child to be born or contract such maladies - except that either the god does not exist - or it is a bastard.

And then of course - that creates a problem with the claim of free will.
IF a god ALREADY KNOWS what we will do - before we are going to do it - then either

1 - Free will does not exist - we MUST fulfill what the god already knows and cannot do anything - nor can the GOD itself - that the God does not know.

2 - For free will to exist - then the god cannot be all knowing - because we have to have the right to choose what the god does NOT know for will to be actually FREE..

So - religion is simply DOUBLETALK

Wrong thread sport, we are just having some fun with some what if... I liked those comics growing up, because they always spawned some cool conversations. I am just taking a Halloween theme what if and mixing it with some topical atheist christian discussions.

If you want to have this conversation start another thread.

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(October 25, 2014 at 1:09 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote:

(October 24, 2014 at 11:12 pm)Drich Wrote: What if we/man are lucifer's minions, and what if this life is our last of last chances? It gives a whole new meaning to salvation, repentance, attonement, and forgiveness of sin. It also brings a much brighter light on the story of the prodigal son, and why Some of us hate loath God.. And maybe it is why God can justify sending non believers to hell... Even for an eternity..

We could also throw in the interesting plot twist that God is a megalomaniac despot whose empire is overthrown at the end by the rebellion that our hero Lucifer leads.

My what if.. Also explain why some see lucifer as a hero

It's kinda like WWII nazi germany. For zee deutsch volk hitler was their leader, but not everyone was a nazi. Some were even against hitler, but still looked to defend their precious Deutschland.. Maybe this world this life is how God seperates those who were just defending their heavenly Deutschland from the satanic nazis.

Oh, and if we are all here then satan's best efforts failed... So there's that feather I. Your hero's cap.

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(October 25, 2014 at 1:33 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: So... who is Lucifer?

When ever you have a general knoweledge question and you don't want to be put at the mercy of the person holding the opposing view in A given conversation by asking them a general knoweledge question like 'who is lucifer.' There is this web site I believe it is called a search motor, search generator, or something like that.. One of my geeky friends told me about It. I believe the web address is Google.com

Just type in the web address and the a search bar will come up, and type I. Your general knoweledge question.

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(October 25, 2014 at 2:05 pm)Alice Wrote:

(October 25, 2014 at 1:33 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: So... who is Lucifer?

Mark Pellegrino.

Far better answer than what I provided.

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(October 25, 2014 at 4:09 pm)Losty Wrote:

(October 25, 2014 at 1:33 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: So... who is Lucifer?

Obama, duh

Far better answer than even what Alice provided... Although not completely accurate.. He is just the beast, not actual satan himself, but close.

Can I have a flame sword that I sheath down my spinal column? And can pulling the flame sword out trigger a slight fiery energy burst as I transform into full angel form? I want to be Jesus ripped, too. Give me some flaws and weaknesses, though, so when I overcome them I'll be even more well received. And a gun.

Ahhh! And when I'm in the shit deep and need backup, I can just rip a rib out and form a super hot destroyer babe. Meanwhile, I look seriously cool as hell doing battle with huge bloody chest wounds, but I don't even notice them, because I'm all "Hyaaahhhh!" *ching-ching* *blat-blat* "Uh spirit uh santi!" *blat*
And then my destroyer babe is like "That was cool. I have feelings for you."

(October 26, 2014 at 3:06 am)Exian Wrote: Can I have a flame sword that I sheath down my spinal column? And can pulling the flame sword out trigger a slight fiery energy burst as I transform into full angel form? I want to be Jesus ripped, too. Give me some flaws and weaknesses, though, so when I overcome them I'll be even more well received. And a gun.

Ahhh! And when I'm in the shit deep and need backup, I can just rip a rib out and form a super hot destroyer babe. Meanwhile, I look seriously cool as hell doing battle with huge bloody chest wounds, but I don't even notice them, because I'm all "Hyaaahhhh!" *ching-ching* *blat-blat* "Uh spirit uh santi!" *blat*
And then my destroyer babe is like "That was cool. I have feelings for you."

I would say yes... But seeing how this life is a test for the next one, being an atheist, you fail. It means you really were on lucifer's side when things went down, and you get sent to hell rather than leveling up.

Wait, I thought I was a fallen angel/demon or something. Doesn't this mean I know God and Lucider exist? Am I still an atheist in this what if scenario? I thought I'd be keen to the whole heaven and hell war. Who the hell am I gonna flame sword battle? Just regular people? This scenario just got hella lame.

(October 26, 2014 at 12:44 am)Drich Wrote:

(October 25, 2014 at 1:33 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: So... who is Lucifer?

When ever you have a general knoweledge question and you don't want to be put at the mercy of the person holding the opposing view in A given conversation by asking them a general knoweledge question like 'who is lucifer.' There is this web site I believe it is called a search motor, search generator, or something like that.. One of my geeky friends told me about It. I believe the web address is Google.com

Just type in the web address and the a search bar will come up, and type I. Your general knoweledge question.

General knowledge? You are telling us Lucifer is our hero or whatever. I want to know who Lucifer is, in the scenario YOU put forth. Your snarky, and horribly grammatically incorrect reply to me doesn't cut it. Let me try again:

WHO in YOUR scenario is Lucifer?