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RE: Scientific Debate: Why I assert that Darwin's theory of evolution is false
November 4, 2014 at 7:16 pm
(This post was last modified: November 4, 2014 at 7:17 pm by Alex K.)
But unlike the deity, it can be a very simple concept (in field theory, a free parameter corresponding to the cosmological constant, the simplest form of DE, seems to always be there automatically) and there is evidence for it.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Scientific Debate: Why I assert that Darwin's theory of evolution is false
November 4, 2014 at 10:59 pm
It seems like there's not going to be a answer that satisfies either side of the abiogenesis vs creationism debate. At least not until one is proven. You can point to the fact that there's evidence that supports abiogenesis but it hasn't been proven. Just like christians and muslims can point to the bible or Koran and say that when Jesus comes back that God will show himself everyone will know that God is real. So really it just depends on what evidence satisfies you the most. Atheists will say that theists don't believe what they believe because they're illogical and theists will say that atheists don't believe what they believe because they don't have faith.
"My life has taught me that true spiritual insight can come about only through direct experience, the way a severe burn can be attained only by putting your hand in the fire. Faith is nothing more than a watered-down attempt to accept someone else's insight as your own." -Damien Echols
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RE: Scientific Debate: Why I assert that Darwin's theory of evolution is false
November 4, 2014 at 11:10 pm
(This post was last modified: November 4, 2014 at 11:11 pm by Whateverist.)
(November 4, 2014 at 10:59 pm)Rob216 Wrote: It seems like there's not going to be a answer that satisfies either side of the abiogenesis vs creationism debate. At least not until one is proven. You can point to the fact that there's evidence that supports abiogenesis but it hasn't been proven. Just like christians and muslims can point to the bible or Koran and say that when Jesus comes back that God will show himself everyone will know that God is real. So really it just depends on what evidence satisfies you the most. Atheists will say that theists don't believe what they believe because they're illogical and theists will say that atheists don't believe what they believe because they don't have faith.
But I wonder what you think would be the most reasonable assumption in most situations? Do you always stop to consider that there may be a religious reason for natural phenomenon? Does the stream flow downhill because of gravity or could it be the will of god? Is evolution itself just a charade where God has actually stacked the deck to be sure a creature would evolve in His image? Why does the origin of life but not the origin of the universe require a cosmic hand - or do you think the big bang also bears God's signature?
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RE: Scientific Debate: Why I assert that Darwin's theory of evolution is false
November 5, 2014 at 12:31 am
(This post was last modified: November 5, 2014 at 12:34 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 4, 2014 at 10:59 pm)Rob216 Wrote: You can point to the fact that there's evidence that supports abiogenesis but it hasn't been proven. Just like christians and muslims can point to the bible or Koran and say that when Jesus comes back that God will show himself everyone will know that God is real. b-mine
Not quite "just like"......
(absurd leveling remarks are a pet peeve of mine)
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RE: Scientific Debate: Why I assert that Darwin's theory of evolution is false
November 5, 2014 at 1:28 am
(This post was last modified: November 5, 2014 at 1:33 am by Rob216.)
(November 4, 2014 at 11:10 pm)whateverist Wrote: (November 4, 2014 at 10:59 pm)Rob216 Wrote: It seems like there's not going to be a answer that satisfies either side of the abiogenesis vs creationism debate. At least not until one is proven. You can point to the fact that there's evidence that supports abiogenesis but it hasn't been proven. Just like christians and muslims can point to the bible or Koran and say that when Jesus comes back that God will show himself everyone will know that God is real. So really it just depends on what evidence satisfies you the most. Atheists will say that theists don't believe what they believe because they're illogical and theists will say that atheists don't believe what they believe because they don't have faith.
But I wonder what you think would be the most reasonable assumption in most situations? Do you always stop to consider that there may be a religious reason for natural phenomenon? Does the stream flow downhill because of gravity or could it be the will of god? Is evolution itself just a charade where God has actually stacked the deck to be sure a creature would evolve in His image? Why does the origin of life but not the origin of the universe require a cosmic hand - or do you think the big bang also bears God's signature?
First of all, I think I used an incorrect term. I believe creationism speaks to the creation of the universe more as it does the creation of life by a deity but I suppose the 2 could go hand in hand.
I'm not sure I could give an answer to your questions because I don't assume to know the will of god. Some believers are set in their beliefs because they follow a religion that tells them what to believe. My beliefs aren't so specific and I want the ability to change my beliefs if new evidence arises. If I see a stream flowing downhill I attribute it to gravity, but it could be argued that God created natural laws.
I, personally, considered myself an atheist for a number of years. I was brought up Catholic but I hated it. To me, it seemed like a lot of stuff from the bible were just stories for children. I have some of the same questions that atheists do:
If God already knows what's going to happen, how is that free will? Isn't that destiny?
If God loves everyone then why do some people flourish and others suffer?
I joined this site because I feel like, to some extent, can understand how atheists feel. I could join a Christian site, or a Muslim site, etc but if I went on there and brought up evolution, abiogenesis, or whatever they could just use the cop-out answer "because God did it" and that doesn't satisfy ME. So yea, religious people hate me because of what I don't believe in and atheists hate me for what I do believe in. I believe in God because of personal experiences I've had not because I read something in a book and blindly followed. Is it the god that fits the description in any religion? I have no idea.
Lastly, what is considered to be reasonable is a matter of circumstance. Let's use murder as an example. Do I think it's reasonable for someone to go out and kill whomever they like? No. Do I think it's reasonable to murder said person that just murders for fun? Yes.
(November 5, 2014 at 12:31 am)Rhythm Wrote: (November 4, 2014 at 10:59 pm)Rob216 Wrote: You can point to the fact that there's evidence that supports abiogenesis but it hasn't been proven. Just like christians and muslims can point to the bible or Koran and say that when Jesus comes back that God will show himself everyone will know that God is real. b-mine
Not quite "just like"......
(absurd leveling remarks are a pet peeve of mine)
What I was referring to is that they also have the ability to point to something that is the basis for their beliefs. Whether or not you or I think it's reasonable is a separate debate.
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RE: Scientific Debate: Why I assert that Darwin's theory of evolution is false
November 5, 2014 at 1:44 am
(November 4, 2014 at 10:59 pm)Rob216 Wrote: It seems like there's not going to be a answer that satisfies either side of the abiogenesis vs creationism debate. At least not until one is proven. You can point to the fact that there's evidence that supports abiogenesis but it hasn't been proven. Just like christians and muslims can point to the bible or Koran and say that when Jesus comes back that God will show himself everyone will know that God is real. So really it just depends on what evidence satisfies you the most. Atheists will say that theists don't believe what they believe because they're illogical and theists will say that atheists don't believe what they believe because they don't have faith.
Holy books are to evidence what hearsay is to testimony.
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RE: Scientific Debate: Why I assert that Darwin's theory of evolution is false
November 5, 2014 at 1:46 am
Quote: So yea, religious people hate me because of what I don't believe in and atheists hate me for what I do believe in.
You finally got something right.
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RE: Scientific Debate: Why I assert that Darwin's theory of evolution is false
November 5, 2014 at 5:54 am
(November 5, 2014 at 1:28 am)Rob216 Wrote: religious people hate me because of what I don't believe in and atheists hate me for what I do believe in.
I can honestly say that I don' t hate you.
I disagree with you regarding the existence of a god.
I may disagree with you a number of other subjects... but around here, that's the main disagreement.
It doesn't mean I hate you.
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RE: Scientific Debate: Why I assert that Darwin's theory of evolution is false
November 5, 2014 at 9:44 am
Bah, don't be silly. Anyone who hates you purely for having funny ideas about biology and religion, is a fool in my book.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Scientific Debate: Why I assert that Darwin's theory of evolution is false
November 5, 2014 at 9:57 am
So Rob if you don't have an authoritative source such as a bible to inform you regarding the nature of god .. what exactly does give you your concept of god? Was your encounter with god informative regarding what god does, what his special powers may be, what he wants from you, what he wants from people generally, what role he played in the creation of life or what role he played in the creation of the cosmos? Was your experience sufficient to confirm the alleged omnipotence and omniscience?
I think one could very well have an experience of the presence of god without having any of these questions answered. Why then, I wonder, do so many theists assume to know so much about 'god'?
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