Usually Christians claim that faith while not contrary to reason is above it and that there are things which reason is incapable of determining or deciding upon.

As an atheist, do you see anything as being above reason or something which you see reason as incapable of addressing (not faith or something supernatural obviously)? Or do you think reason is very much absolute and that anything said to be above or beyond reason is not worth considering?

Just wondering what the general take on this issue is among fellow atheist.

There are many things being above my reason. I'm a natural science idiot and so it's very hard to hammer the newest scientific discoveries into my thick skull. Especially when it comes to the universe. I can't wrap my head around the vastness of this thing.

That doesn't mean though that I'm looking for some supernatural explanation. It's simply above my capacities to even begin to understand. But I'm curious about future discoveries.

Let me put it this way. Some 160 years ago, people thought, you can't ride a train running at a higher speed than - was it 20 or 40 miles - an hour. See, how that worked out. Future generations will probably have much more explanations for the unexplainable at hand.

When Christians say some things are above reason, what they really mean is "as a human being, I can't answer this with reason, so I will make up my own answers." Sure, we have limitations to our understanding, and our reasoning gets fuzzy when our emotions get strong. But reasoning is what we use determine to be true and what to be false. We use it every moment of every day to navigate the world, and no Christian would deny that reason is an absolute necessity to function. But because our capability to use reason has its limitations, however, they simply want to use a different set of rules to reach a warm and fuzzy conclusion when they are faced with those limitations. Instead of accepting that reason won't bring them they answers they desire, they change the epistemological stance that they normally use on a daily basis to function.

Of course, this is all assuming they are a reasoning Christian in the first place, and those seem to be a rarity around here.

I would say that the incompatibility of general relativity and quantum mechanics, which both prove so useful and accurate at different scales, may very well be above reason. Also: the principles underlying the role that mind plays in shaping our perception of the world while simultaneously being an evolutionary product of the world.

Emotions are often beyond the purview of reason.

I don't think there is a better way of learning and understanding than reason. If there was a better method, you'd have to use reason to see why it is better.

Faith is just an emotional appeal, wanting things to be true but having no actual reason. It is of no real value outside of imagination and fantasy.

(November 7, 2014 at 4:19 pm)robvalue Wrote: I don't think there is a better way of learning and understanding than reason. If there was a better method, you'd have to use reason to see why it is better.

Faith is just an emotional appeal, wanting things to be true but having no actual reason. It is of no real value outside of imagination and fantasy.

If faith worked i would faith my self being a millionaire.

Quote:Or do you think reason is very much absolute and that anything said to be above or beyond reason is not worth considering?

This.

Clearly sex is above reason. Beer too.

It's funny how one of those nitwits posted that "atheism is wanting god not to exist." Talk about reason twisted backwards. It seems pretty clear that "theism is wanting god to exist."