It's the whole "at that time..." nonsense which is basically an admission that the bible has no relevance today whatsoever. It's hardly an eternal truth if its already out of date an iota of time later in the grand scheme.

Poppycock I say.

(November 8, 2014 at 2:31 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: Wow. You are truly a disgusting human being.

Why? Because I wish to treat one another with love and respect?

(November 8, 2014 at 2:14 pm)Lek Wrote: Jesus condemned these kinds of actions, as we are commanded to treat one and another with love and respect (even women).

Giving you the benefit of the doubt here: Are you serious with the "even women" part?

Hmmm... we need commanding to respect each other? I respect other people just fine, always have, without any commands from anyone.

If someone needs divine instruction and eternal torturous punishment threats as guidelines just to not be a dick to everyone... they have some growing up to do.

I kill about maybe 30 people a day outside videogames, but they're not real people. I have this thing where I pretend to be waving around katanas, dicing people up. May be something to do with years of videogames.

(November 8, 2014 at 2:34 pm)robvalue Wrote: It's the whole "at that time..." nonsense which is basically an admission that the bible has no relevance today whatsoever. It's hardly an eternal truth if its already out of date an iota of time later in the grand scheme.

Poppycock I say.

I was just saying that was the way it was. I didn't say that their actions were right. They were disgusting. This narrative wasn't meant to teach morality. It was just something that happened.

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(November 8, 2014 at 2:34 pm)abaris Wrote:

(November 8, 2014 at 2:14 pm)Lek Wrote: Jesus condemned these kinds of actions, as we are commanded to treat one and another with love and respect (even women).

Giving you the benefit of the doubt here: Are you serious with the "even women" part?

It was supposed to be a humorous attempt to show how silly it was to think that this statement wouldn't apply to women.

(November 8, 2014 at 2:34 pm)Lek Wrote:

(November 8, 2014 at 2:31 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: Wow. You are truly a disgusting human being.

Why? Because I wish to treat one another with love and respect?

How am I supposed to glean that from what you posted? Just the "(even women)" part you tacked on there makes you disgusting.

(November 8, 2014 at 2:36 pm)Lek Wrote:

(November 8, 2014 at 2:34 pm)abaris Wrote: Giving you the benefit of the doubt here: Are you serious with the "even women" part?

It was supposed to be a humorous attempt to show how silly it was to think that this statement wouldn't apply to women.

Oh yeah. That was hilarious.

Considering god kills people in the bible whenever he feels like it when they do something he doesn't like the look of (and their family and town), I'd say pretty much anything someone gets away with has been condoned.

(November 8, 2014 at 2:40 pm)robvalue Wrote: Considering god kills people in the bible whenever he feels like it when they do something he doesn't like the look of (and their family and town), I'd say pretty much anything someone gets away with has been condoned.

According to you he kills us all. He's responsible for all the pain, suffering and death that we all suffer. He just kills some us sooner than others.

(November 8, 2014 at 2:14 pm)Lek Wrote: The men in this narrative were acting like men of any faith would have acted during that time, as was shown by the men who raped her. It's true that the bible didn't call these actions moral in any way. These verses were not written to teach morality, but it does highlight the morality of the non-Jews as well and their treatment of women (and men). Jesus condemned these kinds of actions, as we are commanded to treat one and another with love and respect (even women).

The bible cannot be a timeless moral document if it fails to address the moral shortcomings of the characters within its narrative. The men of this city were Israelites of the tribe of Benjamin, and chapters 20 and 21 cover the civil war sparked by this event. Jesus may have condemned these actions, but the god of the old testament does not seem to. He endorses a war over the rape and murder of this woman, but is silent on the fact that her master deliberately sent her out to be raped in order to save himself.