Alright i have been thinking a lot lately and i have now been tempted to tolerate the existence of religion because it does provide a sense of happiness to many people, and eases their pain when a loved one dies, since they believe they will see them in Heaven. Ignorant bliss, but bliss nonetheless. Also it does provide a moral standard that is quite acceptable, i do not think anyone can claim Jesus' message is immoral.

So to counterbalance these doubts i need to have some kind of quantification of what religion has done. But to add a twist, except of listing the ones we know most about, such as the Crusades, the pedophilia and the Inquisition, let us try to find ones that we hear less about, but are no less dangerous. I'll start:

In Europe, religion controlled all the education for a millenia. You think creationists are bad ? Imagine if they controlled completely all education, for 1000 years, trying to keep any kind of progress away from society so they could keep their business afloat. Oh, and killing and shutting up scientists, retarding all the modern progress for a few hundred years.

Also in Europe, the Theatrical arts were shunned by the Church, as were most kinds of arts anyways...an actor could not even be allowed to be buried in a cemetary. So for, again, a millenia, countless masterpieces of culture have been destroyed or have been stopped from being created because of this oppression.

(July 10, 2010 at 4:56 am)Rwandrall Wrote: Alright i have been thinking a lot lately and i have now been tempted to tolerate the existence of religion because it does provide a sense of happiness to many people, and eases their pain when a loved one dies, since they believe they will see them in Heaven. Ignorant bliss, but bliss nonetheless. Also it does provide a moral standard that is quite acceptable, i do not think anyone can claim Jesus' message is immoral.

So to counterbalance these doubts i need to have some kind of quantification of what religion has done. But to add a twist, except of listing the ones we know most about, such as the Crusades, the pedophilia and the Inquisition, let us try to find ones that we hear less about, but are no less dangerous. I'll start:

In Europe, religion controlled all the education for a millenia. You think creationists are bad ? Imagine if they controlled completely all education, for 1000 years, trying to keep any kind of progress away from society so they could keep their business afloat. Oh, and killing and shutting up scientists, retarding all the modern progress for a few hundred years.

Also in Europe, the Theatrical arts were shunned by the Church, as were most kinds of arts anyways...an actor could not even be allowed to be buried in a cemetary. So for, again, a millenia, countless masterpieces of culture have been destroyed or have been stopped from being created because of this oppression.

Bible promotes Evil is one of the harmful effects

http://www.evilbible.com/

How about this one:-

The believer in the afterlife has less to fear from death. This means it is possible to create a suicide bomber. In the event that I had to be rescued for fear of death. I would trust a beliver less than an atheist to make every effort to save me because the Atheist knows that this is all there is and death is the end.

Strattosphere -

I believe that there is no such thing as death. You believe that there is, and that there is only 1 life, and 1 death.

From that :

I believe that whatever I do now affects my next life, and therefore, there are consequences for any evil thing that I might do. You believe that you can do evil and that it doesn't matter as there are no consequences.

From that :

I am careful not to do evil. You aren't.

From that :

I'm not dangerous. You are.



See what I did there? I took my and your initial view, and then followed on from it. In doing so, I accurately described my true, individual, views on doing evil, and I lied about yours. Here's another example, in reverse :



I believe that I can do evil, and it doesn't matter as I'll always get another chance. You take great care to only do good, as your only life is all you have, so you may aswell be the best that you can be.

From that :

I'm dangerous. You're not.


This could be done all day. All you have to do is start with the initial view, and go in one direction after another. Which one is true? It depends on the individual. What you're doing is taking one very specific combination and claiming it to apply to all who hold the initial view.

There are many evil things you can do that the bible agrees with actually.

EvF

EvF -

Yes but how many people don't do them, compared to those who do?

Irrelevant to the fact that the book they actually are supposed to follow says they should do it. The fact that many cherry-pick and ignore the nasty parts just demonstrates the fact that they favour the placebo effect and blissful ignorance over rationality. That they favour biased personal preference in belief over consistency in belief.

EvF

EvF -

Exactly, they cherry pick. They choose to do the good things that the bible says, and they ignore the bad things. Most religious people, for that very reason, are not harmful.

It would be much easier to list the positive effects of religion!

(July 10, 2010 at 6:57 am)strattosphere Wrote: In the event that I had to be rescued for fear of death. I would trust a beliver less than an atheist to make every effort to save me because the Atheist knows that this is all there is and death is the end.

A Christian would have a stronger motivation that an atheist to save you because if you died it would mean you would be subject to eternal punishment but if he saved your life there would be a chance that you might become a believer in Jesus and receive eternal life. If the believer were of some other religion this might not be the case and you might be better off depending on the atheist.