(November 12, 2014 at 7:12 am)simplemoss Wrote:

(November 10, 2014 at 6:36 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: The Russians are throwing their weight around, and using tactics from history's playbooks.

Have you seen the leaders of the new Ukrainian government or do you just believe what American news tells u? Its a Neo nazi regime, that USA has given over 5 billion too support.

Are the swatikas and the goosestepping not a big enough clue?

The usa and the EU paid Neo nazis too organize a coup. Yet for some reason American media only depicts Putin as some kind of stalinistic figure who controls all Russian media and is invading Ukraine in response their " freedom" protests that was organized by solely college students. And all those poor "students" wanted was too be free from Communist oppression.

Even though Communist Russia has been abolished for decades

Hi Mr Moss, you are quite right, but it goes further than that.... the accusations that the outgoing regime fired on the demonstrators was also false, the shots were fired by the incoming regime who are now in power....... this was all confirmed in taped phone calls between US and EU ministers.

This is the first situation where I can see the propaganda machine from our side close up. Only 15 months before the coup, the party who are now in power were being reported by the BBC as Neo-Nazi's who had been branded a terrorist organisation by the EU.

Move forward a year, the Ukraine looks like signing agreements with Russia over the EU and all of a sudden, those BBC pages are taken down and the Neo-Nazi party are now being funded and backed by the EU.

The EU and the US are getting exactly what they deserve, Russia are far from blameless, but the one sided reporting, in the UK at least, is genuinely shocking.

Yes Mr hoop I'm aware of all that, but more importantly why do you think all of the "western media outlets" are all lying openly about this? Nazis took over Ukraine through mob violence and forced the democratically elected president too hide in Russia.

McCain and Victoria nuland then pass out cookies and snacks to these nazis. Then we found out the USA has been sponsoring these nazis groups for years?

Instead of covering that (along with the taped phone calls which should be considered absolute proof) they portray Putin as a Stalinist dictator who controls the media the elections the entire "pro Russian" militia group or as they should be called "pro-democratically elected president of the country" militia group.

Why do you think right wingers in the USA don't condemn Obama for spurring a nazi revolt? Is it because he's black and it doesn't make sense too the common idiots?

(November 12, 2014 at 7:12 am)simplemoss Wrote:

(November 10, 2014 at 6:36 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: The Russians are throwing their weight around, and using tactics from history's playbooks.

Have you seen the leaders of the new Ukrainian government or do you just believe what American news tells u? Its a Neo nazi regime, that USA has given over 5 billion too support.

Are the swatikas and the goosestepping not a big enough clue?

The usa and the EU paid Neo nazis too organize a coup. Yet for some reason American media only depicts Putin as some kind of stalinistic figure who controls all Russian media and is invading Ukraine in response their " freedom" protests that was organized by solely college students. And all those poor "students" wanted was too be free from Communist oppression.

Even though Communist Russia has been abolished for decades

I'm not sure why you're writing all this in response to my post. Nowhere in my post did I indicate any admiration for or attachment to the new Ukrainian government. My post was solely about the actions of the Russians.

I hope the Ukrainians get the government they want. If that is an independent fascist government, or if that is under the Kremlin's umbrella, either way it doesn't matter to me, so long as the people there get their will. Generally speaking, I'm an anti-interventionist American, and I think we made a mistake poking our noses into the affair. Let the Europeans sort it, if any outsiders are going to be involved; it's their border, and their natural gas transit route.

(November 13, 2014 at 3:03 am)simplemoss Wrote: McCain and Victoria nuland then pass out cookies and snacks to these nazis. Then we found out the USA has been sponsoring these nazis groups for years?

Yes, what you say here actually points to the core of the issue. Ukraine has become the victim of a pissing contest between Russia and the West. It's all at the expense of the Ukranian people.

(November 12, 2014 at 5:48 am)Hoopington Wrote: I am guessing you're American Chuck?

There are more players in action here than just the US and Russsia my friend.

I heard ukraine is somehow involved, Poland would like to leverage this into some arms buying opportunity, and Germany has no interest, as of yet, in having bevy of Eastern European states truly free in the long run of the Russian threat.

(November 13, 2014 at 4:29 pm)Chuck Wrote: I heard ukraine is somehow involved, Poland would like to leverage this into some arms buying opportunity, and Germany has no interest, as of yet, in having bevy of Eastern European states truly free in the long run of the Russian threat.

Poland is very anti Russian. That's their main driving force when it comes to foreign affairs. Germany isn't very interested in creating a real Russian/European conflict because of economical reasons. Central Europe is very dependant on Russian natural gas.

Poland has always been antirussian, and would love nothing more than rolling Russia all the way to the Urals. Since 1992 one might say Poland has also been self righteous and rash, both characteristics beloved by American neoconservatives. So one might expect Poland to jump onboard without looking, and be expected by America to be onboard, any antirussian initiatives from Washington. But I think even Poland is now looking for a way to make out of it what it can and then jump off quickly before russia come to settle the score.

Yeah, I would think Poland is willing to use this as a justification for access to better arms, but loathe to use it for anything further.

(November 13, 2014 at 11:15 am)Parkers Tan Wrote:

(November 12, 2014 at 7:12 am)simplemoss Wrote: Have you seen the leaders of the new Ukrainian government or do you just believe what American news tells u? Its a Neo nazi regime, that USA has given over 5 billion too support.

Are the swatikas and the goosestepping not a big enough clue?

The usa and the EU paid Neo nazis too organize a coup. Yet for some reason American media only depicts Putin as some kind of stalinistic figure who controls all Russian media and is invading Ukraine in response their " freedom" protests that was organized by solely college students. And all those poor "students" wanted was too be free from Communist oppression.

Even though Communist Russia has been abolished for decades

I'm not sure why you're writing all this in response to my post. Nowhere in my post did I indicate any admiration for or attachment to the new Ukrainian government. My post was solely about the actions of the Russians.

I hope the Ukrainians get the government they want. If that is an independent fascist government, or if that is under the Kremlin's umbrella, either way it doesn't matter to me, so long as the people there get their will. Generally
Lspeaking, I'm an anti-interventionist American, and I think we made a mistake poking our noses into the affair. Let the Europeans sort it, if any outsiders are going to be involved; it's their border, and their natural gas transit route.

are you truly saying you see a neo-nazi government controlling the largest country in Europe is not a big deal?

(November 14, 2014 at 8:36 am)simplemoss Wrote: are you truly saying you see a neo-nazi government controlling the largest country in Europe is not a big deal?

No. I'm saying it is not America's problem to solve. It is the wrong battle, at the wrong time, in the wrong place, with the wrong opponent. If Russia has a problem with one of its border states, they can choose to settle it peacefully, or by using force. America, on the other hand, cannot solve anything there. Our diplomacy has nothing to support it except for sanctions, which have already proved impotent.

Please, I'm writing exactly what I mean. Read it as it is, and respond to what I'm writing, rather than imputing views I haven't expressed. I'm not doing that to you, and I expect the same courtesy in return.