(November 19, 2014 at 10:42 am)Fortruth Wrote: For what its worth, I keep saying God created everything because of all the evidence around and in me. For me its a solid truth that can't be side stepped. the evidence is all around us. Being in the 21st century equips us with more tools to see how vast His creation is..from the tiny atom to the universe, and planets that we are still discovering, and probably will continue to discover until the end. I will try not to quote the Bible here. Just evidence in and around us tells us that we were carefully thought-out. we are linked up...its simply an incredibly-mind-blowing invention/creation if you really stop to think about it. EVERYTHING is intelligently made- not accidentally.

I feel you are mixing up the way people practicing religion with the existence of God. I did not say that we can not do good at all. we can do good but without God's guidance we can not be ever sure of what is truly good. We can do good in the way we know it, but since you mention cultures, there are cultures that mean to do good but are not considered good from other culture's perspectives or the Bible's. Good will be all relative.

Try to see from the What if God exists lens: He would be supremely perfect, the perfect standard of goodness, cleanliness, love, Justice, and Truth etc....all these qualities go hand in hand. He can not be one and not the other. He can not be a loving God and not a Just God. He can not leave bad unpunished because of His Just nature etc. The stories of Job, the floods etc. fit into these characters of His. I am sure I can not fully satisfy your questions for these because He needs to answer for these Himself and I believe He does so to everyone who chooses to really listen. In talking about whether God exists or not, we are talking about a real Person. The way i do it- not intending to be corny here- is to ask him straight out..and He has answers me every time not out-loud, personally but through ways I can understand.

Holy wars may fit with Islam but not with the profile of Christianity as we know it today (New Testament Christianity at least) but have you ever stopped to ask...why with so feeble evidence (according to atheists) that Jesus continues to be worshiped and His believers are growing...since over 2000 years ago. what makes Him so different than any other man that lived on earth (it is proven historically that He was actually here on earth). so why is He sooo special? Why despite all attempts of education He continues to grow on people and is revered? I've read of so many people converting to Christinity just after hearing of Him- though they did not understand the entire Bible or the stories in it. It is because He is God and man and His nature and what He did explains all the rough patches we see in the Bible. I always say to myself...after the coming of Jesus, this has stopped, this has become better etc. He is the answer to everything. I also happen to believe the Bible is the truth however hard some of it is to swallow and so I believe that there will be an end time, but was not told to worry about it but to live life like the end will arrive suddenly- all the more reason to live life doing good for all others, so we will not be caught living a messy life. Jesus He'd ask something like this when He returns "I was hungry and you did not feed me, I was in prison and you did not visit me etc." He said to look for Him in every person that we see....sad how these teachings of His don't come up in conversations like these.

If that's how you feel but evidence doesn't support that notion fine by me. just that no one is really going to feel how you feel that god created everything. a being so well perfect well imperfect because he is flawed to have the same thing us people have emotion and to love yet hate us at the same time. but i'm ecstatic every day i'm not a theist. Also atheists are not lost sheep were just smart enough to follow the herd that's been around for thousands of years.

How can anyone know for sure? So it must be a matter of faith.

Yeah, actually you are right. It all comes down to feelings and how well we trust our feelings to guide us on what we know is truth. And we're all too lazy to really research for evidence, like the fact that Jesus existed... I've read sometime that it is historically proven but hell, I'm too lazy to dig that out and share it with you...because, you are already decided in your way of thinking.

So, smart atheists are following the herd to where? you are saying there is absolutely no purpose for our existence. we will die one day and that's it. I really admire you now because I do not think I could enjoy life knowing that I was some stupid accident. That's my weakness and I will own up to it. Thank God that's not the truth though.

(November 19, 2014 at 11:02 am)Fortruth Wrote: Yeah, actually you are right. It all comes down to feelings and how well we trust our feelings to guide us on what we know is truth. And we're all too lazy to really research for evidence, like the fact that Jesus existed... I've read sometime that it is historically proven but hell, I'm too lazy to dig that out and share it with you...because, you are already decided in your way of thinking.

So, smart atheists are following the herd to where? you are saying there is absolutely no purpose for our existence. we will die one day and that's it. I really admire you now because I do not think I could enjoy life knowing that I was some stupid accident. That's my weakness and I will own up to it. Thank God that's not the truth though.

Appealing to consequence, yo. Regardless of how it makes you feel, reality is reality.

Also, your statements of "It all comes down to feelings and how well we trust our feelings to guide us on what we know is truth" is a pretty distressing admission of presupposition which pretty much makes any honest inquiry impossible.

(November 19, 2014 at 10:42 am)Fortruth Wrote: Just evidence in and around us tells us that we were carefully thought-out. we are linked up...its simply an incredibly-mind-blowing invention/creation if you really stop to think about it. EVERYTHING is intelligently made- not accidentally.

Try drinking and breathing at the same time and get back to me.

(November 19, 2014 at 10:42 am)Fortruth Wrote: He is the answer to everything.

Now you tell me. This bit of information would have come in handy:

Q. 2+2=? A. Jesus
Q. The Battle of Hastings occurred in which year? A. Jesus
Q. The average distance between the sun and the moon? A. Jesus
Q. Why do some priests molest children? A. Jesus
Q. Why did the chicken cross the road? A. Jesus

Right on. I was actually led to make that statement. Reality is reality. Can you please prove that God is not a reality?

What I was trying to say is, we have the facts qualitative and quantitative...we choose to accept which are facts for us. There is evidence of God's existence, but atheist say those are not evidence of His existence...so it all comes down to which is the most convincing fact. and what do you use to choose those facts? I say from what I've observed with atheists is that they base their decisions on what they see around them. and they do not bother to dig into evidences claimed by Christian Theologians, or scientists, so they are actually no different than uneducated people who lived in older civilizations that said the earth was flat and not round because they did not have the tool to see it was actually round. Same way atheist just because you do not have the tool to see God you say He doesn't exist. you are using your feelings to say that (because of the cruel dirty world around us). if anything, Christians really have nothing to lose for believing.

(November 19, 2014 at 11:21 am)Fortruth Wrote: Right on. I was actually led to make that statement. Reality is reality. Can you please prove that God is not a reality?

What I was trying to say is, we have the facts qualitative and quantitative...we choose to accept which are facts for us. There is evidence of God's existence, but atheist say those are not evidence of His existence...so it all comes down to which is the most convincing fact. and what do you use to choose those facts? I say from what I've observed with atheists is that they base their decisions on what they see around them. and they do not bother to dig into evidences claimed by Christian Theologians, or scientists, so they are actually no different than uneducated people who lived in older civilizations that said the earth was flat and not round because they did not have the tool to see it was actually round. Same way atheist just because you do not have the tool to see God you say He doesn't exist. you are using your feelings to say that (because of the cruel dirty world around us). if anything, Christians really have nothing to lose for believing.

I'll ask again, share some of this so-very-convincing-evidence.

And while you're at it, prove that Allah is not a reality.

(November 19, 2014 at 11:02 am)Fortruth Wrote: Yeah, actually you are right. It all comes down to feelings and how well we trust our feelings to guide us on what we know is truth.

So personal opinion mixed with confirmation bias, then?

And I'll tell you again, if you Really want to know you seem smart dig out the evidence (historic, philosophical arguments etc) yourself...its there.

Re Allah you are re asking my question: I believe Allah is a reality- He is God. The one and the same. Its the way (theology) the Muslim's are worshiping Allah that I disagree with as a Christian. You know that the Old Testament and the Quran are very much the same. but when it comes to the part about Jesus, Muslims say He is just a prophet and we Christians say He is the Mesiah- God incarnate. Savior of the World.

(November 19, 2014 at 11:33 am)Fortruth Wrote: And I'll tell you again, if you Really want to know you seem smart dig out the evidence (historic, philosophical arguments etc) yourself...its there.

Re Allah you are re asking my question: I believe Allah is a reality- He is God. The one and the same. Its the way (theology) the Muslim's are worshiping Allah that I disagree with as a Christian. You know that the Old Testament and the Quran are very much the same. but when it comes to the part about Jesus, Muslims say He is just a prophet and we Christians say He is the Mesiah- God incarnate. Savior of the World.

1) I ask you to defend your position and your response is "Go do it yourself"? Fuck off.

2) Prove that Jesus being God is reality. Disprove that he wasn't just a prophet.