I grew up in a Christian home, believing in miracles and that God proves himself in many ways each day. I no longer believe in God, but some of the stories of "miracles" I've heard are just... hard to dismiss.

A friend of a friend supposedly felt "God" telling her to pull over while she was on the highway. She ignored it several times, and then finally gave in and pulled over. She got out, looked down, and found her husband's wallet, which had apparently fallen off his truck earlier that day. My family shared her story and basically said that "God knew exactly how many times He'd have to tell her to pull over before she did it, and it was all in His perfect timing so that she'd pull over at the right place".

That is just one scenario that I have been told about by my super spiritual family. I'm just wondering what any atheists, or simply anyone who's not a Christian, believes about this.

What are the odds of that happening? Does this mean there's something like "fate" that caused this? Is it some other force of nature we've yet to understand that is responsible for these unbelievable coincidences? Or... could there be a God, after all? If so, why would any loving God take the time to find someone's wallet, but not rescue someone from disease, war, rape, hunger... etc.?

He wouldn't...
But more to the point,

Skepticism 101: We don't know the true details of this story, if it even happened in a recognizable fashion. Before we start to wonder whether it can be a coincidence, we'd first have to make sure we really know exactly what happened. Since we don't, the exercise is pointless.

(November 29, 2014 at 3:57 pm)Castiel Wrote: A friend of a friend supposedly felt "God" telling her to pull over while she was on the highway. She ignored it several times, and then finally gave in and pulled over. She got out, looked down, and found her husband's wallet, which had apparently fallen off his truck earlier that day. My family shared her story and basically said that "God knew exactly how many times He'd have to tell her to pull over before she did it, and it was all in His perfect timing so that she'd pull over at the right place".

Or... could there be a God, after all? If so, why would any loving God take the time to find someone's wallet, but not rescue someone from disease, war, rape, hunger... etc.?

That's one of the big questions right there.
Why would God take the time to lead someone to a missing wallet, but not lead someone starving in a third world country to food, water, and medicine?

As in....
First world person: "I'm so blessed! God led me to my wallet so that I wouldn't miss a few bucks and have to go through the hassle of calling my credit companies to take care of missing cards!"

Third world person: "I'm so happy for you! That's ok, I didn't need to eat today.... or tomorrow.... or the next day. As long as you have your money and no credit hassles!"


(PS +1 for Misha Collins)

(November 29, 2014 at 3:57 pm)Castiel Wrote: I grew up in a Christian home, believing in miracles and that God proves himself in many ways each day. I no longer believe in God, but some of the stories of "miracles" I've heard are just... hard to dismiss.

A friend of a friend supposedly felt "God" telling her to pull over while she was on the highway. She ignored it several times, and then finally gave in and pulled over. She got out, looked down, and found her husband's wallet, which had apparently fallen off his truck earlier that day. My family shared her story and basically said that "God knew exactly how many times He'd have to tell her to pull over before she did it, and it was all in His perfect timing so that she'd pull over at the right place".

That is just one scenario that I have been told about by my super spiritual family. I'm just wondering what any atheists, or simply anyone who's not a Christian, believes about this.

What are the odds of that happening? Does this mean there's something like "fate" that caused this? Is it some other force of nature we've yet to understand that is responsible for these unbelievable coincidences? Or... could there be a God, after all? If so, why would any loving God take the time to find someone's wallet, but not rescue someone from disease, war, rape, hunger... etc.?

I like the previous posts above about why would God. . . when people are dying? And also about the inherent problem with any friend of a friend story.

But lets look at yet another problem with this miracle. That's the timing of it. God tells the woman to pull over and she ignores the feeling several times. For the story to be a miracle God would not only have to know about where the wallet was, but exactly how many times he'd have to tell her before she'd pull over and exactly how long it would take her to stop the car, and that she would immediately get out of the car and look down. And when we've finished all of that, we must then either throw free will or the miracle out the window or drop it off the truck.

^^This. It's the problem of free will.

Theists will believe anything that gives them a warm feeling in their pants.

It does not need to be factual. After all, they determinedly insist that a dead jew came back to life to atone for their sins.

It's really problematic - people will hear many of these vague stories about a friend of a friend, with incomplete information, exaggeration and made-up elements, the "skeptic" in them is unable to debunk them, but can't really view them critically either because one usually dares not accuse friends of telling untrue things, and thus these stories will be seen as accumulated evidence for the supernatural - when in reality they are precisely nothing.

(November 29, 2014 at 4:50 pm)Jenny A Wrote: And when we've finished all of that, we must then either throw free will or the miracle out the window or drop it off the truck.

And that's why you should always watch where you're driving. You might run over someone's free will.

OK, that was bad....

Bullshit stories like this always remind me of.....




Fucking 'god' is a whizz at finding car keys but the big stuff seems to elude him!

Confirmation bias. Billions of non-amazing things go on every second but we take no notice. When one happens to hold some significance or fit a pattern we want to see, we pick it out. It's a very easy trap to fall into, it's natural human behaviour.