(December 11, 2014 at 11:37 am)Losty Wrote:

(December 11, 2014 at 9:27 am)dyresand Wrote: also not to mention jesus sent his own self to hell for not believing in himself and in those 3 days jesus was dead there was no god. so when he was like father forgive them they do not know what they do, that idiot was talking to himself. <- thats if any of this is real.

What? What religion teaches this?

Christianity god/jesus went to hell for being a atheist.

I...don't recall ever reading that part.

(December 11, 2014 at 11:55 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: I...don't recall ever reading that part.

those 3 days jesus was dead he was in hell. jesus himself is god and is a non believer god being in a human form and not being a believer in himself he went to hell.

(December 11, 2014 at 11:21 am)Huggy74 Wrote:

(December 11, 2014 at 5:15 am)robvalue Wrote: NDE = bollocks, brain under extreme stress creating hallucinations which inevitably involve what it is familiar such as jesus and angels and crap and somehow no muslim stuff

Aren't you guys all about evidence and proof? If NDE's are nothing more than "hallucinations" then I'm pretty sure that there is scientific test data to prove this.

So where is it?

Thy wish is my command, master.

http://www.livescience.com/16019-death-e...ained.html

Quote:A 2005 study found that out-of-body experiences can be artificially triggered by stimulating the right temporoparietal junction in the brain, suggesting that confusion regarding sensory information can radically alter how one experiences one's body.

A variety of explanations might also account for reports by those dying of meeting the deceased. Parkinson's disease patients, for example, have reported visions of ghosts, even monsters. The explanation? Parkinson's involves abnormal functioning of dopamine, a neurotransmitter that can evoke hallucinations. And when it comes to the common experience of reliving moments from one's life, one culprit might be the locus coeruleus, a midbrain region that releases noradrenaline, a stress hormone one would expect to be released in high levels during trauma. The locus coeruleus is highly connected with brain regions that mediate emotion and memory, such as the amygdala and hypothalamus.

In addition, research now shows that a number of medicinal and recreational drugs can mirror the euphoria often felt in near-death experiences, such as the anesthetic ketamine, which can also trigger out-of-body experiences and hallucinations. Ketamine affects the brain's opioid system, which can naturally become active even without drugs when animals are under attack, suggesting trauma might set off this aspect of near-death experiences, Mobbs explains.

Finally, one of the most famous aspects of near-death hallucinations is moving through a tunnel toward a bright light. Although the specific causes of this part of near-death experiences remain unclear, tunnel vision can occur when blood and oxygen flow is depleted to the eye, as can happen with the extreme fear and oxygen loss that are both common to dying.

Altogether, scientific evidence suggests that all features of the near-death experience have some basis in normal brain function gone awry.

(December 11, 2014 at 11:58 am)dyresand Wrote:

(December 11, 2014 at 11:55 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: I...don't recall ever reading that part.

those 3 days jesus was dead he was in hell. jesus himself is god and is a non believer god being in a human form and not being a believer in himself he went to hell.

Where are you getting this information?

I have heard this story before too, but I don't know its origin. A lot of stuff has just been made up to "complement" the bible.

(December 11, 2014 at 11:59 am)pocaracas Wrote:

(December 11, 2014 at 11:21 am)Huggy74 Wrote: Aren't you guys all about evidence and proof? If NDE's are nothing more than "hallucinations" then I'm pretty sure that there is scientific test data to prove this.

So where is it?

Thy wish is my command, master.

http://www.livescience.com/16019-death-e...ained.html

Quote:A 2005 study found that out-of-body experiences can be artificially triggered by stimulating the right temporoparietal junction in the brain, suggesting that confusion regarding sensory information can radically alter how one experiences one's body.

A variety of explanations might also account for reports by those dying of meeting the deceased. Parkinson's disease patients, for example, have reported visions of ghosts, even monsters. The explanation? Parkinson's involves abnormal functioning of dopamine, a neurotransmitter that can evoke hallucinations. And when it comes to the common experience of reliving moments from one's life, one culprit might be the locus coeruleus, a midbrain region that releases noradrenaline, a stress hormone one would expect to be released in high levels during trauma. The locus coeruleus is highly connected with brain regions that mediate emotion and memory, such as the amygdala and hypothalamus.

In addition, research now shows that a number of medicinal and recreational drugs can mirror the euphoria often felt in near-death experiences, such as the anesthetic ketamine, which can also trigger out-of-body experiences and hallucinations. Ketamine affects the brain's opioid system, which can naturally become active even without drugs when animals are under attack, suggesting trauma might set off this aspect of near-death experiences, Mobbs explains.

Finally, one of the most famous aspects of near-death hallucinations is moving through a tunnel toward a bright light. Although the specific causes of this part of near-death experiences remain unclear, tunnel vision can occur when blood and oxygen flow is depleted to the eye, as can happen with the extreme fear and oxygen loss that are both common to dying.

Altogether, scientific evidence suggests that all features of the near-death experience have some basis in normal brain function gone awry.

The problem with your article is that it's equating OBE's (out of body experience) with NDE's. These are two separate phenomena. I've experienced an OBE and many of you probably have also, or came close.

If you ever lay in bed for instance, and felt the sensation of being paralyzed, that is the beginning stages of an OBE, most people freak out however and don't complete the process.
Test it for yourself, next time you feel the sensation of being paralyzed, don't freak out, just relax, and I guarantee you'll experience an OBE.

That being said NDE's are "claimed" to be a result of Cerebral hypoxia, but this has never been tested for obvious reasons, so therefore your article is speculation.
The only way to scientifically test an NDE is to observe someone actually having an NDE.

How can one tell that someone else is "actually having an NDE?

(December 11, 2014 at 12:24 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: How can one tell that someone else is "actually having an NDE?

That's the thing, you can't tell till someone comes back from being almost dead, and tells you.

Which is also why it can never be tested (ethically).

(December 11, 2014 at 12:21 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(December 11, 2014 at 11:59 am)pocaracas Wrote: Thy wish is my command, master.

http://www.livescience.com/16019-death-e...ained.html

The problem with your article is that it's equating OBE's (out of body experience) with NDE's. These are two separate phenomena. I've experienced an OBE and many of you probably have also, or came close.

mostly, yes... but it's the parallels drawn between the two that matter, here.

Quote:If you ever lay in bed for instance, and felt the sensation of being paralyzed, that is the beginning stages of an OBE, most people freak out however and don't complete the process.
Test it for yourself, next time you feel the sensation of being paralyzed, don't freak out, just relax, and I guarantee you'll experience an OBE.

That has definitely never happened to me.

Quote:That being said NDE's are "claimed" to be a result of Cerebral hypoxia, but this has never been tested for obvious reasons, so therefore your article is speculation.

It is... correlation. Now we all know that correlation does not imply causation, but it hints in the general direction.

Quote:The only way to scientifically test an NDE is to observe someone actually having an NDE.

yeah... it may be kinda hard to have someone going through a NDE while they're inside the MRI scanner.... it may come to happen, one day, but it hasn't yet...


Now, back to the correlation business... if it is known that a specific drug or brain process, like hypoxia, leads to a the same kind of experience as particular type of NDE, why should I try to explain the NDE as something related to an altogether unsubstantiated concept, like the soul leaving the body and looking at the pearly gates, instead of the seemingly mundane one, like lack of oxygen delivery to parts of the brain?