(December 10, 2014 at 9:17 pm)Chad32 Wrote: I'm sure this is far deeper stuff than the Jews and gentiles of old considered when they wrote those books.

No, not really. The Bible say the resurrected will have a new body, the old is gone and the new lives.

GC

The better thing to say is do we even need a heaven or hell....
when there is better alternatives with other religions.
live a good life die and come back rich.
live a bad life come back as a insect.

It always seemed more fitting to have your next life be determined by your actions, rather than who you kiss up to. Even when the bible says deeds are important too, it still says worshiping Yahweh is most important and overrides everything else. Because your deeds are like filthy rags, and all sins are equal except maybe blasphemy.

(December 15, 2014 at 9:18 pm)Chad32 Wrote: It always seemed more fitting to have your next life be determined by your actions, rather than who you kiss up to. Even when the bible says deeds are important too, it still says worshiping Yahweh is most important and overrides everything else. Because your deeds are like filthy rags, and all sins are equal except maybe blasphemy.

I've been wondering about you lately, I have come to a conclusion that you truly do not know what Christianity is or means. Even though you've heard what Christians have said here you completely ignore what's be said. You use the same things to condemn what we believe, over and over, little changes. Let me say this and I hope you will always keep it in mind, every thing you said above is wrong absolutely wrong. I'm not trying to say anything bad here, I'm pointing out what I have been curious about and observed.

GC

GC, some people cling to their falsehoods precisely because they do not want to believe...for whatever reason (usually so they don't feel guilty about sinning).

(December 15, 2014 at 5:52 am)Godschild Wrote:

(December 10, 2014 at 9:17 pm)Chad32 Wrote: I'm sure this is far deeper stuff than the Jews and gentiles of old considered when they wrote those books.

No, not really. The Bible say the resurrected will have a new body, the old is gone and the new lives.

GC

Then what is the need for the death of the old? If your soul is connected to dying tissue, when is a new set of tissue in a new body created? What percentage of the old body has to die before jesus starts work on a new body?
What was the point of busting open graves if god is making a whole new body anyway. Why did zombies roam Jerusalem when jesus was crucified? Why would they be climbing out of a grave on the surface of the earth when their new body was in heaven? What did god do with the physical bodies of the prophets and jesus when they were swept up to heaven?

Your new body apology seems weak. It makes no difference if the god magic swirls the dead body back to life in heaven or if the god magic creates a new clone in heaven, the problem of why and when the soul leaves the generations of biological cells and gets swept away in a cloud of fairy magic dust is still not answered. But I guess you knew that you really didn't address the issue, didn't you?

(December 15, 2014 at 10:13 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: GC, some people cling to their falsehoods precisely because they do not want to believe...for whatever reason (usually so they don't feel guilty about it).

This is very true. I don't have any interest in learning more than I already know about christianity, or the other two Abrahamic religions, and no christian has ever said anything to change my mind. You want to believe Yahweh is good, despite the actions attributed to him, for reasons that I don't understand. We're probably not going to get past this impasse.

What christianity means has been debated ever since its conception. When all of you christians can figure out close to unanimously what christianity means, and stop fracturing into countless different groups, please get back to us atheists. If people who have a relationship with their god can't answer that question, what chance do we have?

I'm not sure why I'd feel guilty about sinning anyway. What do I care about the likes and dislikes of someone I've never met, and no one can prove he exists?

(December 10, 2014 at 8:52 pm)Beccs Wrote:

(December 10, 2014 at 8:50 pm)Brakeman Wrote: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal, and given the fact that we are a massively multicellular organism that refreshes its cellular make-up by cell die-off and replacement every 7 years or so, could it not be that the old cellular body that I once had as a christian will go to heaven, but the cellular body that I have now, as an atheist, will go to hell? Why would god punish the old dead me for the actions of the later current me?

You just want the best of both worlds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVjRe8QXFHY

(December 15, 2014 at 9:18 pm)Chad32 Wrote: It always seemed more fitting to have your next life be determined by your actions, rather than who you kiss up to. Even when the bible says deeds are important too, it still says worshiping Yahweh is most important and overrides everything else. Because your deeds are like filthy rags, and all sins are equal except maybe blasphemy.

i found that more compelling than live a eternity in heaven or hell.
it made more sense to me as a child because why spend a eternity in heaven in the first place with people who abuse forgiveness. And why spend a eternity in hell with people who for the most part did nothing wrong besides not believing in god or the wrong one, or maybe they were happy satanists since well they are in hell.

(December 15, 2014 at 10:13 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: GC, some people cling to their falsehoods precisely because they do not want to believe...for whatever reason (usually so they don't feel guilty about sinning).

Oh, I mentioned this old tired canard on another thread and here we are!

"You just don't want to believe."

I'll believe when you evidence it. Thus far: