(December 25, 2014 at 7:30 pm)abaris Wrote:

(December 25, 2014 at 7:24 pm)dyresand Wrote: Some..times.. just some times... some people need to be under a communism.
i'm not saying its a bad thing or good thing. But come on when there is people doing horrible things and kill each other....
then yes they need there freedom limited big time.

Sorry, but sometimes you don't make any sense at all. What's your actual point?

If it is about limiting freedom, any freedom, I'm wth Parker. You can't argue freedom by taking away the freedom of others, even if you don't agree with them.

Well you can't argue with someone who is that far into a religion and or cult to tell a person what they are going is wrong. I'm not saying they are hopeless either. They just need to grow up they need to get punished for the actions they do yes. i mean what i said i just look over is...really stupid..

(December 25, 2014 at 7:34 pm)Zen Badger Wrote: The Roman Empire quite successfully transformed itself into a religion.
Making the spiritual successors to the Roman emperors, the popes heir to a temporal empire the Casears could've only dreamed of.

Not at all. A million people lived in Rome at it's height. In the Middle Ages when the popes were at the height of their power, an estimated 20.000 people lived there and the popes were presiding over a city of ruins. The city itself saw an incredible decline within 500 years due to many factors. One of them being the loss of the provinces, another frequent raids.

Also the popes weren't the ones seeing themselves continuing the Roman Empire. It were the Holy Roman emperors. First the Franks, then the German emperors up until 1806.

(December 25, 2014 at 7:39 pm)dyresand Wrote: Well you can't argue with someone who is that far into a religion and or cult to tell a person what they are going is wrong. I'm not saying they are hopeless either. They just need to grow up they need to get punished for the actions they do yes. i mean what i said i just look over is...really stupid..

For setting up a freaking cross? Sorry, but that's certainly not a cause I'm signing up for. I don't want them to dictate how I have to live, but that cuts both ways. Who am I to dictate, that they have no right to their believes?

If you know they don't want crosses there then quit building them!

(December 25, 2014 at 7:43 pm)abaris Wrote:

(December 25, 2014 at 7:34 pm)Zen Badger Wrote: The Roman Empire quite successfully transformed itself into a religion.
Making the spiritual successors to the Roman emperors, the popes heir to a temporal empire the Casears could've only dreamed of.

Not at all. A million people lived in Rome at it's height. In the Middle Ages when the popes were at the height of their power, an estimated 20.000 people lived there and the popes were presiding over a city of ruins. The city itself saw an incredible decline within 500 years due to many factors. One of them being the loss of the provinces, another frequent raids.

Also the popes weren't the ones seeing themselves continuing the Roman Empire. It were the Holy Roman emperors. First the Franks, then the German emperors up until 1806.

How many Catholics are there in the world?
How much property does the church own?
How much wealth does it posses?
The pope is in charge of an empire Augustus could not have even conceived of.

Chuck Wrote:It is one thing to be concerned. It is another to reflexively deem it wrong based solely on some airy principle that can not be used to accurately or reliably predict each possible consequence of its own implementation.

In the end, if maximizing the practical extent and durability of freedom of conscience is to be set as a goal in itself, then I do not believe that archiving of that goal is in a practical sense is compatible with implementing a reflexive attitude of uncritical tolerance all self-styled "conscience". Freedom of conscience should not be a suicide pact if it were to survive.

Who should be empowered to decide which thoughts are intolerable and should be banned? If that decision is based on a popular vote, you could well expect your own atheism to be outlawed.

If that decision is to be made behind closed doors, then the potential for abuse is obvious.

The best reply to silly, stupid, or offensive speech is not banning. The best reply is a thorough and public deconstruction.

(December 25, 2014 at 8:12 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: The best reply to silly, stupid, or offensive speech is not banning. The best reply is a thorough and public deconstruction.

^This!^

And that sentiment can also be taken as my response to the proposal in another thread that Fox News be shut down. You can't silence every fool, political hack, and religious zealot out there, and the cure would be worse than the disease even if you could. Wide exposure of their dangerous idiocy to as many as will listen is the best course of action. Let the twin disinfectants of reason and ridicule do their work. This is a long game, and the goal should be to marginalize such people by making their views too shameful for most people to embrace. The last thing we should want is the production of a bunch of martyrs.

(December 25, 2014 at 2:58 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: The role Christianity in the fall of Rome is debatable, as they declining before they became Christian and the eastern roman empire was christian and stood till 1476.

Current day christers assert widespread acceptance of homosexuality, establishment of children's daycare centers for working mothers, homosexuality, voting rights for minorities, homosexuality, regulation of pollution, homosexuality, development of alternative energy sources, homosexuality, not displaying the 10 commandments, homosexuality, prohibiting prayers in the classroom, and homosexuality is what caused Rome to fall.

Quote:It's hard to expand freedoms by taking them away, as you seem to be arguing.

Religious cults are not about "freedom," Parker. They are about control. In fact, the communists are amateurs compared to religious cults when it comes to repression and longevity.

No. I can't work up any sympathy for assholes who insist their cult is being repressed by another cult. It's what cults do. And China seems to be moving in the right direction.

(December 26, 2014 at 1:23 pm)Minimalist Wrote: And China seems to be moving in the right direction.

China combines the worst of both worlds. Unchained capitalism with communist opression. It's hard to work up any sympathy for them, let alone claim, they're moving in the right direction.

The Party will soon discover that there is no such thing as "a little freedom." They have unleashed forces that they cannot control.