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RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God
January 3, 2015 at 7:48 pm
(January 3, 2015 at 7:43 pm)Drich Wrote: What makes you think he tried to deceive God?
Well, it really goes round in neat little circles. Either god is all powerful and omniscent or he isn't. Satan knows this and still makes an attempt, he's an idiot, since he should know beforehand, he's not all powerful. Or god isn't all powerful and omniscent, but then the rest of the story goes down the crapper.
That's why Satan's a bigger idiot than Loki and the Titans, since neither Odin or Zeus were omniscient and all powerful.
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RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God
January 3, 2015 at 7:51 pm
(January 3, 2015 at 5:01 pm)Nope Wrote: (January 3, 2015 at 4:38 pm)IATIA Wrote: Are you suggesting that Lucifer thought god was sick and old?
If we humans, who have never stood in the physical presence of this god understand that the Christian deity is supposed to be all powerful and all knowing, wouldn't Satan be even more aware of his master's power?
How could an all powerful, non human entity seem sick or old to Lucifer? I assumed that Christians envisioned their god as a spirit without a physical body.
Again sick/old denotes weakness. I am suggesting that lucifer perceives weakness in God which would give him a foot hold to reason away an all knowing all powerful God.
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RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God
January 3, 2015 at 7:55 pm
(This post was last modified: January 3, 2015 at 7:55 pm by abaris.)
(January 3, 2015 at 7:51 pm)Drich Wrote: Again sick/old denotes weakness. I am suggesting that lucifer perceives weakness in God which would give him a foot hold to reason away an all knowing all powerful God.
Honestly, would you write a story using that kind of plot? That's so weak, it's obviously grasping at straws. God being sick or weak? Come on.
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RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God
January 3, 2015 at 7:58 pm
(January 3, 2015 at 5:34 pm)h4ym4n Wrote: (January 3, 2015 at 3:02 pm)Drich Wrote: In essence satan does have limited control over this world, you tell me. you all the first people to speak of the persecution, famine, death and disease. Where do you think that comes from?
At some point in gods intelligent design phase it had to decide to allow or not to allow those things, right?
It could have left those out and us mere mortals would have no knowledge of them.
or it could of just created us all in heaven.
Yes God Allows what another being has done/doing... Now ask yourself why would He do that? Oh, wait could it be that he handed the keys to this world over to man telling us we are responsible for it, and we promptly handed the keys and ourselves over to satan? 
Actions have consequences God simply holds us to the consequences of our actions.
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RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God
January 3, 2015 at 8:01 pm
(This post was last modified: January 3, 2015 at 8:02 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(January 3, 2015 at 7:58 pm)Drich Wrote: Yes God Allows what another being has done/doing... Now ask yourself why would He do that? Because your god lives between your ears and can't really stop anyone else from doing anything anyway?
Easy questions, easy answers.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God
January 3, 2015 at 8:04 pm
(January 3, 2015 at 7:58 pm)Drich Wrote: Actions have consequences God simply holds us to the consequences of our actions.
Actions do not always have consequences. People daily get away with doing horrible things. They live their entire lives without ever having to suffer any type of consequences for those actions.
The creation of god, Big Brother and ultimate judge, is simply man's way of easing his own mind to the fact that sometimes, oftentimes, there are no consequences in life for our actions.
Basically, the man's creation of god is Maybe you won't suffer in this life, but god will get you when you die. Something a kid on a playground would state.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God
January 3, 2015 at 8:09 pm
(This post was last modified: January 3, 2015 at 8:12 pm by Drich.)
(January 3, 2015 at 7:55 pm)abaris Wrote: (January 3, 2015 at 7:51 pm)Drich Wrote: Again sick/old denotes weakness. I am suggesting that lucifer perceives weakness in God which would give him a foot hold to reason away an all knowing all powerful God.
Honestly, would you write a story using that kind of plot? That's so weak, it's obviously grasping at straws. God being sick or weak? Come on.
What are you talking about? This is an age old/very first apprentice thinking he has exceeded the master story.
When infact the master has not changed at all, but it is the pride of the apprentice that makes him think he is stronger than the master.
(January 3, 2015 at 8:04 pm)Sionnach Wrote: (January 3, 2015 at 7:58 pm)Drich Wrote: Actions have consequences God simply holds us to the consequences of our actions.
Actions do not always have consequences. People daily get away with doing horrible things. They live their entire lives without ever having to suffer any type of consequences for those actions.
The creation of god, Big Brother and ultimate judge, is simply man's way of easing his own mind to the fact that sometimes, oftentimes, there are no consequences in life for our actions.
Basically, the man's creation of god is Maybe you won't suffer in this life, but god will get you when you die. Something a kid on a playground would state.
Sooo. If a man wishes to wage war against a neighboring country thier won't be any consenquences?
The fact of the matter is all actions have consenquences even if those consenquences are not felt or even beneficial to the transgressors.
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RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God
January 4, 2015 at 3:10 pm
I feel as if I lost something. Drich, how did you make the jump from what Sionnach said to making war?
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RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God
January 4, 2015 at 3:23 pm
(January 4, 2015 at 3:10 pm)Nope Wrote: I feel as if I lost something. Drich, how did you make the jump from what Sionnach said to making war?
Sion said actions do not always have consenquences. Sion is speaking to a rare exception (and even then consenquences are present even if they are not negitive for the person transgressing)
And not the rule.
In essence their is a war between those who would do God's will and those who will not. My question about the consenquences of war parallels all the colateral damage (consenquences) found in any war and the colateral damage found in this spiritual war.
This illustrates that we are indeed living 'in the rule' and not in the exception sion was trying to argue. Because we do not live in the exception, sion's arguement has been nullified.
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RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God
January 4, 2015 at 3:25 pm
(This post was last modified: January 4, 2015 at 3:29 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
LOL, I never tire of watching you declare victory from atop your perch in fairyland. Do you see yourself as a "soldier of christ", by any chance? Would it be fair to say that your description of god is - at least in part- along the lines of a warlord..and this life as the ravaged countryside in which he plies his trade (and of course, in which he peddles his wares)?
.....do it...you know you want to, make me happy 
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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