I'm sort of an agnostic when it comes to the way the US healthcare system should be. I know that the free market has handled health care in the US poorly, leaving a crazy amount of people in debt or without adequate care. At the same time I've had extensive familiarity with the Canadian health care system, having lived in Canada and having a Canadian girlfriend with some serious health problems. There are major negatives to that system as well.

Let me get to the point. I was poking around the internet and found the world health care rankings as ranked by the WHO. (http://thepatientfactor.com/canadian-hea...h-systems/)

Now the US ranked at 37 and Canada at 30 (France at 1) and I was wondering if our healthcare wouldn't be considered better if our population was sooo obese. Every country in the top 20 are countries with rates of obesity far lower than that of both the US and Canada. Canada also has a relatively high rate of obesity. Would France's healthcare be the top if they had the rate of Obesity that we have? Does having a good healthcare system lead to lower obesity? I don't really know and am curious for some forum input.

We would have less obesity of we didn't subsidize corn so much that we find it in freaking everything. Especially in processes foods, which are cheap. Cheap processes foods are bought up, people get fat, and people don't get the nutrients they need so they suffer from malnutrition.

Oklahoma is trying something I quite like. Those on food stamps get 1.5x the value of their food stamps when they spend it on healthy foods, such as fresh fruit and vegetables. It's a better use of money and will help the general health of the community.

In general, a healthier population is one with less obesity.

(January 4, 2015 at 1:55 pm)Natachan Wrote: We would have less obesity of we didn't subsidize corn so much that we find it in freaking everything. Especially in processes foods, which are cheap. Cheap processes foods are bought up, people get fat, and people don't get the nutrients they need so they suffer from malnutrition.

Oklahoma is trying something I quite like. Those on food stamps get 1.5x the value of their food stamps when they spend it on healthy foods, such as fresh fruit and vegetables. It's a better use of money and will help the general health of the community.

In general, a healthier population is one with less obesity.

For sure I agree. However would our healthcare not rank so poorly if that happened? I guess what I'm getting at is our healthcare really super fucked up or are we just super fat and it makes it seem more fucked up than it is?

(January 4, 2015 at 1:47 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: I'm sort of an agnostic when it comes to the way the US healthcare system should be.

I'm ambivalent. This year my #1 spouse had a cardiac event. We're on the hook for US$11k out of pocket deductible out of a bill of US$35k, but got prompt treatment that was probably life saving. This puts me in another hated group, those who actually benefit from expensive treatments while more sensible preventative care goes unfunded. This entire scenario is an example of the effects of the Affordable Care Act as spouse would not have been likely eligible for insurance because the cardiac condition was pre-existing. The ACA is supposed to improve American health care and from my experience, it has. It remains to be seen if we'll be able to keep it.

Regarding obesity, Aractus had a thread some short time ago where he presented quite a lot of what appeared to me to be current and accurate.
http://atheistforums.org/thread-29838.ht...ht=obesity

(January 4, 2015 at 1:58 pm)JuliaL Wrote:

(January 4, 2015 at 1:47 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: I'm sort of an agnostic when it comes to the way the US healthcare system should be.

I'm ambivalent. This year my #1 spouse had a cardiac event. We're on the hook for US$11k out of pocket deductible out of a bill of US$35k, but got prompt treatment that was probably life saving. This puts me in another hated group, those who actually benefit from expensive treatments while more sensible preventative care goes unfunded. This entire scenario is an example of the effects of the Affordable Care Act as spouse would not have been likely eligible for insurance because the cardiac condition was pre-existing. The ACA is supposed to improve American health care and from my experience, it has. It remains to be seen if we'll be able to keep it.

Yeah, I think that is the best part of the ACA. My best friend was in a similar situation when she dislocated her elbow in a climbing accident. She was able to sign up for super low cost insurance at the hospital. I'm fairly politically conservative but have softened somewhat on the ACA. There are still things about it that I am very critical of. However would our healthcare system rank better if we were less obese?

Here's another problem that Canada doesn't have.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...post-says/

Quote:"USA is #1 in gun violence. Nearly 100,000 people get shot every year. That's 270 people a day and 87 dead because of gun violence every day."

Many people eat shitty food because of poverty. Many others have or had virtually no health care because they couldn't afford it until Obama came along and the republicunts haven't stopped shitting bricks about that - and food stamps - because they want the poor forced up Shit's Creek.

Complex issues usually have multiple causes.

(January 4, 2015 at 2:09 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Here's another problem that Canada doesn't have.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...post-says/

Quote:"USA is #1 in gun violence. Nearly 100,000 people get shot every year. That's 270 people a day and 87 dead because of gun violence every day."

Many people eat shitty food because of poverty. Many others have or had virtually no health care because they couldn't afford it until Obama came along and the republicunts haven't stopped shitting bricks about that - and food stamps - because they want the poor forced up Shit's Creek.

Complex issues usually have multiple causes.

Haha, I love having you on the forums. You might be crazy as fuck sometimes, but at least I can always know what I'm going to get from you with no pretentious bullshit.

(January 4, 2015 at 1:58 pm)JuliaL Wrote: I'm ambivalent. This year my #1 spouse had a cardiac event. We're on the hook for US$11k out of pocket deductible out of a bill of US$35k, but got prompt treatment that was probably life saving. This puts me in another hated group, those who actually benefit from expensive treatments while more sensible preventative care goes unfunded. This entire scenario is an example of the effects of the Affordable Care Act as spouse would not have been likely eligible for insurance because the cardiac condition was pre-existing. The ACA is supposed to improve American health care and from my experience, it has. It remains to be seen if we'll be able to keep it.

All of the above goes without saying in European health care systems. You get immediate treatment when you need it and you don't have to pay an additional dime to what your social security provides. They also provide preventive care systems. That's one of the answers why the US doesn't rank that good when compared internationally. Availability of health care or lack thereoff. Another would be the overall high costs per capita. In France they spend an average of about 4000 Dollars per patient, in the US, as far as I'm informed it's about 8000 dollars. Other factors are the actual positive or negative outcomes of treatments and life expectancy. It's a bit lower in the US than it is for example in most European countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cou...expectancy

So obesity alone certainly doesn't explain it.

(January 4, 2015 at 2:01 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: would our healthcare system rank better if we were less obese?

I'm not smart or informed enough to say with authority.
My opinion is that we made a decision as a society some time ago to hide the cost of healthcare from its consumers. Government payments, insurance whose premiums come from employers and hospital secret price lists keep the public from even guessing what the price tag is. Because of this public enforced disinterest, doctors, hospital administrators, malpractice attorneys and insurance company CEOs are able to siphon off vast quantities of cash without the dampening effects of a competitive marketplace.
None of these effects are strictly due to obesity.
But I agree, we'd be healthier, and a lot more attractive if we weren't collectively so fat.
And I'm off to the 'Y' to do my part.

(January 4, 2015 at 2:14 pm)abaris Wrote: All of the above goes without saying in European health care systems. You get immediate treatment when you need it and you don't have to pay an additional dime to what your social security provides. They also provide preventive care systems. That's one of the answers why the US doesn't rank that good when compared internationally. Availability of health care or lack thereoff. Another would be the overall high costs per capita. In France they spend an average of about 4000 Dollars per patient, in the US, as far as I'm informed it's about 8000 dollars. Other factors are the actual positive or negative outcomes of treatments and life expectancy. It's a bit lower in the US than it is for example in most European countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cou...expectancy

So obesity alone certainly doesn't explain it.

For sure I am not saying that obesity alone explains it. That's definitely not what I'm saying. I'm just curious as to what the numbers would be like if we had Frances rates of obesity and they had ours. How big of an affect does it have on the system and on the cost?