(January 6, 2015 at 11:30 pm)Brakeman Wrote:

(January 6, 2015 at 3:23 pm)alpha male Wrote: A. Wife at home who (you say) loves you and wants to give you good sex for free.

B. Stranger in a strip club who will rub against you if you pay her.

The correct choice is A. I know you guys hate (others') judgment, but that's how it is. Someone who chooses B over A has something wrong with them.

According to prophets of Yahweh, the correct answer would be:

C: Who cares what the wife wants to do! it's the husband that makes the rules, and if the man sees a strange woman he likes, he takes her as another wife or he has her stoned for being sexy outside of marriage.

I'm pretty sure someone got bazinga'ed right here.

(January 6, 2015 at 3:28 pm)Rhythm Wrote: No more true this time than it was the last time. Granted, you may be qualified to speak about your own life, and your own wife - but the moment you start jacking your "morality" to a picture of me it's gonna get weird quick.

Yes, it got weird all right. Paying a naked woman to touch your dick in a sexual manner isn't cheating - weird.

For you, where is the line? What is cheating?

Quote:I go to strip clubs, I enjoy strippers - unapologeticaly.

Nice that you're now being honest, rather than spouting bullshit about hanging out with friends, and check-out girls.

Quote:This, to you, seems to suggest that there must be something wrong with me.

Yes, as there's no good reason to pay for something that you can get for free.

Now, this is based on your assertion that you have a great sex life with your wife. If you don't, then the strippers might be more logical, although that scenario presents other issues.

Quote:However, When asked whether or not the presence of pussy would cause me to cheat on my wife it's an easy no.

Rather, you lower the bar.

Quote:My dick isn't in charge of my marriage. You don't go to strip clubs, in fact...you "avoid temptation" but when asked if the presence of pussy would cause you to cheat on your wife..the answer is"maybe".....

-and somehow..that qualifies -you-...to give -me-....marriage advice?

Yep.

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(January 6, 2015 at 4:13 pm)Kitty Galore Wrote: I find it interesting that AM makes an "exception" if it's the wife's idea to go to a strip club and watch.

As I presume that's a tiny fraction of men going to strip clubs, I just gave it a pass to take it off the table.

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(January 6, 2015 at 3:41 pm)Losty Wrote: A wife at home who loves you enough to want to give you good sex for free. Even if you enjoy paying a stripper to dance for you.

Why wouldn't you want to devote yourself completely to such a woman - you know, as you likely promised to do when you married her?

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(January 6, 2015 at 6:42 pm)Creed of Heresy Wrote: Says who? You?

And most people.

Quote:Others would disagree. After all, according to many, the point of marriage is to achieve a union between a man and a woman but there's tens of millions of others who would say it's to achieve a union between any consenting lovers who wish to be married. So it seems there's no unanimous consensus there, either.

It sounds like there's a unanimous consensus that marriage is to be a union, and the strippers weren't there at the ceremony, so they're not part of the union.

Quote:Hell, one of my friends can back up my claim.

Yes, out of billions of people, I'm sure there are a few, but I gave it a pass, so you don't need to harp on it.

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(January 6, 2015 at 8:39 pm)whateverist Wrote: Personally I've always found the greatest fault lies with the people who fret over what is wrong with other people. That makes you different than me but I would never claim that what annoys me is the gold standard for assigning fault in others.

The revisionist history going on here is amusing.

I made a post about myself:
http://atheistforums.org/thread-30581-po...#pid833542

All that I said regarding other people is "no one's perfect," which surely isn't controversial.

Then Losty came on and told what's wrong with me and/or my wife:
http://atheistforums.org/thread-30581-po...#pid833657
If your wife doesn't trust you it's something you need to work on. Either you've given her a reason not to trust you, or she has an unhealthy level of jealousy...

Funny that no one told her that my marriage is none of her business.

Your marriage isn't any of my business. I am sorry if I offended you, but you implied that your wife doesn't trust you. I will take back my original statement and simply say, if your wife doesn't trust you that is none of my business.

It's funny(in a pathetic way) how you make Rhythm into a guy who pays strippers to touch his dick. I don't remember him saying he did that. I guess I must have missed that quote.

Not everyone uses traditional wedding vows, but as far as I can recall there's nothing in the traditional ones about not watching strippers.

Fidelity- faithfulness to a person, cause, or belief, demonstrated by continuing loyalty and support. (*google dictionary)

So when I get married one day I imagine that our agreement in that area will be: he won't fuck anyone else without my knowledge of it before hand, and I won't fuck anyone else without his permission. Or something like that. So he could fuck a hundred strippers and still be faithful to me, and I would still love him and be waiting at home to give him all of my love and great free sex. Perhaps it's not the kind of marriage you like but it's still a marriage and no one is cheating. Why is sex so important? I don't get it, I honestly don't. Yea I want my future husband to be responsible and std free but besides from that...I don't see where the big deal is. When I think of something I want to be mine that I don't want to share with anyone and everyone...I'm thinking of his heart, his love...not his cock.

Anywho, there's nothing wrong with having a monogamous marriage where strip clubs are only permitted at the wife's insistence and husbands are not to be trusted near available women without supervision. That's perfectly acceptable, but not required to make for a good marriage.

Again, I apologize, it's really none of my business if your wife doesn't trust you that's between you and your wife.

(January 7, 2015 at 9:05 am)alpha male Wrote:

(January 6, 2015 at 8:39 pm)whateverist Wrote: Personally I've always found the greatest fault lies with the people who fret over what is wrong with other people. That makes you different than me but I would never claim that what annoys me is the gold standard for assigning fault in others.

The revisionist history going on here is amusing.

All that I said regarding other people is "no one's perfect," which surely isn't controversial.

I was reacting to this other bit you wrote:

alpha male Wrote:I know you guys hate (others') judgment, but that's how it is. Someone who chooses B over A has something wrong with them.

(January 7, 2015 at 9:05 am)alpha male Wrote: Then Losty came on and told what's wrong with me and/or my wife:
http://atheistforums.org/thread-30581-po...#pid833657
If your wife doesn't trust you it's something you need to work on. Either you've given her a reason not to trust you, or she has an unhealthy level of jealousy...

Funny that no one told her that my marriage is none of her business.

Well, now she's done that for you. But remember, my point had been that it is not a hobby of mine to look for everyones faults 24/7. Not having pointed that out is par for the course I'm on.

(January 7, 2015 at 11:12 am)Losty Wrote: Your marriage isn't any of my business. I am sorry if I offended you, but you implied that your wife doesn't trust you. I will take back my original statement and simply say, if your wife doesn't trust you that is none of my business.

It's funny(in a pathetic way) how you make Rhythm into a guy who pays strippers to touch his dick. I don't remember him saying he did that. I guess I must have missed that quote.

Not everyone uses traditional wedding vows, but as far as I can recall there's nothing in the traditional ones about not watching strippers.

Fidelity- faithfulness to a person, cause, or belief, demonstrated by continuing loyalty and support. (*google dictionary)

So when I get married one day I imagine that our agreement in that area will be: he won't fuck anyone else without my knowledge of it before hand, and I won't fuck anyone else without his permission. Or something like that. So he could fuck a hundred strippers and still be faithful to me, and I would still love him and be waiting at home to give him all of my love and great free sex. Perhaps it's not the kind of marriage you like but it's still a marriage and no one is cheating. Why is sex so important? I don't get it, I honestly don't. Yea I want my future husband to be responsible and std free but besides from that...I don't see where the big deal is. When I think of something I want to be mine that I don't want to share with anyone and everyone...I'm thinking of his heart, his love...not his cock.

Anywho, there's nothing wrong with having a monogamous marriage where strip clubs are only permitted at the wife's insistence and husbands are not to be trusted near available women without supervision. That's perfectly acceptable, but not required to make for a good marriage.

Again, I apologize, it's really none of my business if your wife doesn't trust you that's between you and your wife.

That's well put, Losty. You speak for me too.

(January 7, 2015 at 11:12 am)Losty Wrote: Your marriage isn't any of my business. I am sorry if I offended you, but you implied that your wife doesn't trust you. I will take back my original statement and simply say, if your wife doesn't trust you that is none of my business.

I wasn't offended. Honestly, I doubt if Rhythm's been offended by anything I say. I'm guessing he's just having a good time with it, as I am. It's you and others who are taking it so seriously.

But, I do find the hypocrisy/double standards illuminating.

Quote:It's funny(in a pathetic way) how you make Rhythm into a guy who pays strippers to touch his dick. I don't remember him saying he did that. I guess I must have missed that quote.

Not everyone uses traditional wedding vows, but as far as I can recall there's nothing in the traditional ones about not watching strippers.

He acknowledged getting lap dances. That's paying a girl to touch your dick, albeit through clothes.

Quote:Fidelity- faithfulness to a person, cause, or belief, demonstrated by continuing loyalty and support. (*google dictionary)

So when I get married one day

Doubtful.

Quote:I imagine that our agreement in that area will be: he won't fuck anyone else without my knowledge of it before hand, and I won't fuck anyone else without his permission. Or something like that. So he could fuck a hundred strippers and still be faithful to me, and I would still love him and be waiting at home to give him all of my love and great free sex.

The definition says faithfulness, in this case to a person, and doesn't say that you can be unfaithful as long as you clear it beforehand.

And if that's what you're looking for, why bother getting married?

Quote:Perhaps it's not the kind of marriage you like but it's still a marriage and no one is cheating. Why is sex so important? I don't get it, I honestly don't. Yea I want my future husband to be responsible and std free but besides from that...I don't see where the big deal is. When I think of something I want to be mine that I don't want to share with anyone and everyone...I'm thinking of his heart, his love...not his cock.

Why not be faithful to each other in all ways? You presumably have the same working parts as any other woman. Unless he covets, he should be perfectly happy having sex with his wife only.

Quote:Again, I apologize, it's really none of my business if your wife doesn't trust you that's between you and your wife.

LOL, nice back-handed apology.

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(January 7, 2015 at 11:43 am)whateverist Wrote: Well, now she's done that for you. But remember, my point had been that it is not a hobby of mine to look for everyones faults 24/7. Not having pointed that out is par for the course I'm on.

That's not my hobby either. Losty is more into it than I am. So is Rhythm, who came in disparagingly calling me (I presume, although he didn't quote me) a puritan.

(January 7, 2015 at 12:50 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(January 7, 2015 at 11:12 am)Losty Wrote: Your marriage isn't any of my business. I am sorry if I offended you, but you implied that your wife doesn't trust you. I will take back my original statement and simply say, if your wife doesn't trust you that is none of my business.

I wasn't offended. Honestly, I doubt if Rhythm's been offended by anything I say. I'm guessing he's just having a good time with it, as I am. It's you and others who are taking it so seriously.

I'm taking the conversation seriously if you mean I am conveying my honest opinion.

Quote:But, I do find the hypocrisy/double standards illuminating.

Quote:It's funny(in a pathetic way) how you make Rhythm into a guy who pays strippers to touch his dick. I don't remember him saying he did that. I guess I must have missed that quote.

Not everyone uses traditional wedding vows, but as far as I can recall there's nothing in the traditional ones about not watching strippers.

He acknowledged getting lap dances. That's paying a girl to touch your dick, albeit through clothes.

Getting a lap dance is not having someone touch your dick. Not at all.

Quote:

Quote:Fidelity- faithfulness to a person, cause, or belief, demonstrated by continuing loyalty and support. (*google dictionary)

So when I get married one day

Doubtful.

You doubt I'll ever get married? Why?

Quote:

Quote:I imagine that our agreement in that area will be: he won't fuck anyone else without my knowledge of it before hand, and I won't fuck anyone else without his permission. Or something like that. So he could fuck a hundred strippers and still be faithful to me, and I would still love him and be waiting at home to give him all of my love and great free sex.

The definition says faithfulness, in this case to a person, and doesn't say that you can be unfaithful as long as you clear it beforehand.

And if that's what you're looking for, why bother getting married?

Faithful-loyal, constant, and steadfast. (*google dictionary)
Being faithful means being loyal, staying true to your marriage vows. Some people include sex in this, some people don't. Being faithful and maintaining fidelity in a marriage means agreeing with your spouse beforehand on your definitions and boundaries and sticking with them.

I have my own reasons for wanting to get married and they do not include a desire to have sex. I can do that without getting married.

Quote:

Quote:Perhaps it's not the kind of marriage you like but it's still a marriage and no one is cheating. Why is sex so important? I don't get it, I honestly don't. Yea I want my future husband to be responsible and std free but besides from that...I don't see where the big deal is. When I think of something I want to be mine that I don't want to share with anyone and everyone...I'm thinking of his heart, his love...not his cock.

Why not be faithful to each other in all ways? You presumably have the same working parts as any other woman. Unless he covets, he should be perfectly happy having sex with his wife only.

And so what if he does covet? Perhaps he covets the neighbor and his wife, perhaps he wants to watch the neighbor fuck me while he fucks the neighbors wife. Sex is fun, if you want to keep it between you and your wife that's fine. If my future husband and I want to keep it between us and whichever std free sexies we find trustable, sexy, and fun that's also fine.

Quote:

Quote:Again, I apologize, it's really none of my business if your wife doesn't trust you that's between you and your wife.

LOL, nice back-handed apology.

I honestly don't care what you do in your marriage. If you're happy, I'm glad for you. If you're not, I hope you get it worked out. That goes for everyone who isn't me. I won't feel it's my right to butt in unless someone is being abused. You try to make me out to be judgemental but I'm not. I didn't spend pages insulting your marriage or your choices within it. I made one statement to make a point. I never called you a liar about your marriage or made up blatant lies about what you do within your marriage. I said "if your wife doesn't trust you". If your wife does trust you, then that's great. Perhaps, maybe you don't trust yourself? Or maybe you just don't like strip clubs. Which is fine. Many people don't. But saying that's more Losty's thing. That's ridiculous. Anyone with half a brain can see you judging everyone who disagrees with you. And anyone who bothers to get to know me will realize that I am not a judgemental person.

(January 7, 2015 at 9:05 am)alpha male Wrote: For you, where is the line? What is cheating?

It doesn't matter, so long as my wife and I have the same ideas about that line, huh?

Quote:Yes, as there's no good reason to pay for something that you can get for free.

Do strippers offer their services for free where you come from? I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that if I tried to extract services from a stripper without paying for them - it would be some manner of assault or rape. Just not my bag....and that's reason enough to me to pay the girl what she asks for.

Quote:Now, this is based on your assertion that you have a great sex life with your wife. If you don't, then the strippers might be more logical, although that scenario presents other issues.

The greatness of my sex life has long since past the point of assertion. I accepted the burden of proof - and provided a convincing demonstration. To which she replied "I do". :que the bells:
(couldn't pass on that one, the setup was perfect)

Quote:Rather, you lower the bar.

No...it's an easy no. Again, I have no doubt, you do. If the only way you can explain this difference is to insert your own narrative into my life - you're a lost cause. I'm sorry, I just don't value the marriage advice of a man who doesn't know whether or not he would cheat on his wife when presented with some skin. Whatever strategy you're using, it clearly isn't working as well as mine. I've already described my explanation for this scenario. Your summary of what it is to be male, and what the experience of our sexuality entails is a joke. Your advice - this "avoiding temptation" business is impossible in practice and grounded upon no demonstrable principle.

You explanation has been a constant "No..no it can't be, you can't be right, that can't work" on and on - jesus fucking christ it's depressing...

Quote:Funny that no one told her that my marriage is none of her business.

"Boo-hoo, when I decide to be a dick people are mean to meeeee........"

(January 7, 2015 at 2:15 pm)Rhythm Wrote: It doesn't matter, so long as my wife and I have the same ideas about that line, huh?

You can't agree to a line if you can't say what the line is.

Quote:Do strippers offer their services for free where you come from?

I mean you can get the same from your wife. Why isn't she good enough for you?

Quote:I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that if I tried to extract services from a stripper without paying for them - it would be some manner of assault or rape. Just not my bag....and that's reason enough to me to pay the girl what she asks for.

If it would be rape, you must be doing more with them than you admit to. So where's that line?

Quote:No...it's an easy no. Again, I have no doubt, you do. If the only way you can explain this difference is to insert your own narrative into my life - you're a lost cause. I'm sorry, I just don't value the marriage advice of a man who doesn't know whether or not he would cheat on his wife when presented with some skin.

Says the man whose actions would be rape if not paid for.

Quote:Whatever strategy you're using, it clearly isn't working as well as mine.

As I only have sex - lots of it - with my wife, my strategy is clearly much better than yours.

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(January 7, 2015 at 2:00 pm)Losty Wrote: Getting a lap dance is not having someone touch your dick. Not at all.

Wow, how do you figure that?

OP the internet isn't a good place for marriage counseling.. they are people you can pay irl for that.

(January 8, 2015 at 9:05 am)alpha male Wrote: You can't agree to a line if you can't say what the line is.

Then I guess it's a good thing the wife and I had that conversation... it was and remains a conversation in which your presence is neither requested nor required. Can't mind your own business about anything when it comes to my dick or my wife...can you? I think I smell the distinct odor of one man coveting another mans help-meat.

Quote:If it would be rape, you must be doing more with them than you admit to. So where's that line?

Admit to? It's a lap dance, what is there to admit?

Quote:Says the man whose actions would be rape if not paid for.

Meh, half clever - so gratz...but you're still the man who doubts his own fidelity, and when we're done trading barbs that won't have changed.

Quote:As I only have sex - lots of it - with my wife, my strategy is clearly much better than yours.

That makes your self doubt even more perplexing to me. Even if the sex with my wife was shitty and infrequent..(as it will invariably be at some point in the future and as it has been in the past... 4 kids and neither of us are getting any younger) - it will still be a solid no.

You could...if you wanted to, go ahead and retract the strange things you've said about yourself....it won't surprise me, I've silently continued to suspect that you're a better person than you would have me believe - even if you don't have a clue wtf you're talking about regarding masculinity, sexuality, or marriage.