(January 13, 2015 at 10:51 pm)professor Wrote: So Min, if some Muslim with a gun pointed at you tells you to convert to Islam, or you will be killed OR publicly proclaim your allegiance to allah, kiss his ass, bow down 5 times a day. You have no problem with doing that?
Yes Min, there is a difference in motivation for what people do.

I would play along until I could escape.

There's a huge difference in what the OP says and what happened to the apostles and many Christians of that time. Those mentioned in the OP were religious nut just like the bombers of Islam, they killed themselves or their members killed them, most of it was a quick death. The apostles and Christians of that time lived out their beliefs knowing they could be killed, even die a horrible death, none took their lives but lived it in dedication to God and each other. There's nothing common between them and the religious nuts of today except they died. They were not looking to die, that's not the statement they wanted to make, they did not grandstand. They devoted their lives to God and wanted Him to receive glory not them. There's so little in common with the two groups that I think it's a disgrace to mention them as being anything alike. One group took their lives, will the other gave their lives every day they lived.

GC

Here's a clip from The Atheist Experience all about this topic. The "Die for a Lie" argument is absolute rubbish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHEiBvB-Xu0

The bible does not say how the apostles, if they even lived at all, died. What Christians believe about their deaths comes from Catholic tradition.

Hindi martyrs according to Wikipedia
Sultan Abu Syahid Shah was killed by Muslims. He has the title of the Martyred King

Tarani Debnath is considered a martyr. He was shot dead by military police

Swami Lakshmanananda Saraswati was a Hindu monk who lived a life dedicated to tribal welfare.He waa regarded as a messiah among his people. On September 30, 2013 he was assassinated ny Maoist insurgents with support from Christian missionaries

Haqiqat Rai was a 17th century Hindu teenager who was shot for not converting to Islam

According to some accounts Sambhaji was killed for not becoming Muslim

Swami Shradfhanand was killed by Muslims

Who dies for a lie? Those who believe in it.

Sumayyah bin Khayyat is believed to be first Muslim martyr.

Theses six men are known as the Six Martyrs of Shia Islam. Shadid al Awwal, Shadid al Thani, Shadid al Thalith, Shadid al Rabi, Shadid al Khamis, Shadid al Sadis

Mohammad Baqir al Hakim was killed in a car bomb during anti Shia unrest

There are more but I wanted to move on to another religion

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(January 14, 2015 at 9:23 am)One Above All Wrote: Who dies for a lie? Those who believe in it.

Very true but their belief or death doesn't make the lie true. It just mrans they died a senseless tragic death

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Buddhism. There are several Buddhist monks who set themselves on fire to protest mistreatment of the goverment toward their religion

Tsunesaburo Makiguchi. Was imprisoned by Japanese and died of malnutrition.

Maudgalyayana was possibly stoned to death

The Dalit martyrs were killed by Hindus

(January 14, 2015 at 9:31 am)Nope Wrote:

(January 14, 2015 at 9:23 am)One Above All Wrote: Who dies for a lie? Those who believe in it.

Very true but their belief or death doesn't make the lie true. It just mrans they died a senseless tragic death

I never said or implied otherwise.

(January 14, 2015 at 9:43 am)One Above All Wrote:

(January 14, 2015 at 9:31 am)Nope Wrote: Very true but their belief or death doesn't make the lie true. It just mrans they died a senseless tragic death

I never said or implied otherwise.

I was agreeing with you.

They don't have to even believe it, they may feel that maintaining a lie may be preferable to the consequences of the truth getting out, even at the cost of their life.

(January 14, 2015 at 9:52 am)Nope Wrote:

(January 14, 2015 at 9:43 am)One Above All Wrote: I never said or implied otherwise.

I was agreeing with you.

Were Not!