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RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 21, 2015 at 6:46 am
I get a particularly "connected" feeling when I click with a musician during some free form jams. Other than that: No. I have felt extremely embarrassed and awkward in situations where I was expected to feel spiritual or religious, and people around me were acting like weird fools. It's a bit like a hypnotist. I would never volunteer in front of an audience to be hypnotized because I would be horribly embarrassed for the guy when it doesn't work. I do get a lot from meditation; however.
Here's a long ass story illustrating my stubbornness towards the effects of religious experience.
My girlfriend and I had an argument one morning, and while we were arguing we made our way to the car. We hadn't discussed going anywhere, but we just kind of got in the car. When we got to the end of the driveway, I asked her where we were headed. She shrugged. I looked left- clear skies. I looked right- gloomy clouds and rain. I said "Lets just go where it isn't raining."
And so, at every stop sign we came to, we used that same method as our compass. We went where the rain wasn't. Eventually we ended up in some plaza we've never been to in a town we've never heard of. She said "Now what?" I looked across the lot and saw a store that specialized in making signs- called Signs. She and I are both the artsy type, so I suggested that place.
When we walked in to the little shop, we could see some fairly large printing machine and banners being used as wallpaper. Behind the counter was a short curly headed man with a warm smile. He seemed confused by the two kids that just walked in, but he was happy to explain his operation when we told him we we're just some curious artists.
We explained to him that we got there by driving away from the rain, and had no real plans. He suddenly got really excited and told us about how that morning he asked god what he wants him to do. God told him "Talk to my children." He asked "how?" To which god replied "You will know." (Dead serious, this guy said this). At the time I was Christian and my lady wasn't, so I was cool with this happening. The Signs guy zeroed in on my lady, asking questions about her childhood. We revealed she had a rough childhood and bipolar depression. He got real intense with her and she suddenly became very "spiritual" and broke down in tears. Meanwhile, me, the Christian, felt very awkward and I just wanted to leave. The guy was clearly looney or into some strange shit- that's the vibe I was getting. But my Christian self wouldn't let me disagree with him. I just kept lying to myself.
So to recap- we fought, went where the sun was shining, ended up at a place in some town called Signs, and got preached at. I thought it was a sign that I should get more religious at the time, but, even as a Christian, I ultimately chalked it up to coincidence. She and I are both atheists now. Instead of god, she takes medication for her condition, and has been good for four years.
I can't remember where this verse is from, I think it got removed from canon:
"I don't hang around with mostly men because I'm gay. It's because men are better than women. Better trained, better equipped...better. Just better! I'm not gay."
RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 21, 2015 at 7:01 am
(January 21, 2015 at 6:40 am)Alex K Wrote: Considering that people don't even recognize their own mothers if they get a stroke in wrong part of their brain, I am highly sceptical how much useful information this disembodied immortal soul actually carries with it. As the philosopher Eric Clapton famously asks: Will you know my name, if I saw you in heaven? Answer: probably not.
No man, you got it all wrong. Obviously memories are made of mental sticky stuff that's different from physical stuff.
It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley, but to believe or not believe in God is not important at all. - Denis Diderot
We are the United States of Amnesia, we learn nothing because we remember nothing. - Gore Vidal
RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 21, 2015 at 7:01 am
I think there will be a strong correlation between how suggestable someone is and how many "religious experiences" they have. Also lack of critical thinking, going straight for the argument from ignorance, "What else could it have been?" And of course, the desire to have such experiences.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.
RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 21, 2015 at 7:02 am (This post was last modified: January 21, 2015 at 7:10 am by Exian.)
Those are my thoughts exactly. You could imagine how I told the story when I was a Christian. As an atheist, I sort of struggle to have a point while telling that story, other than overcoming the minefield of mental fallacies associated with coincidence.
(January 21, 2015 at 6:49 am)Alex K Wrote: Exian,
nice story, the journey could be a metaphor for something. And a sign-maker, another great metaphor. Just for what...
Ooo, I just noticed you said sign-maker; an important distinction. Perhaps the metaphor could be something like "What at first appears to be a sign from god, is nothing more than a man-made craft." But, you know, flowery wording and what not.
I can't remember where this verse is from, I think it got removed from canon:
"I don't hang around with mostly men because I'm gay. It's because men are better than women. Better trained, better equipped...better. Just better! I'm not gay."
RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 21, 2015 at 8:15 am (This post was last modified: January 21, 2015 at 8:39 am by watchamadoodle.)
(January 20, 2015 at 1:39 pm)Pizz-atheist Wrote:
(January 20, 2015 at 1:04 pm)watchamadoodle Wrote: I don't think anybody has mentioned meditation yet. A year ago I was trying very hard to learn to meditate, so I would sit and stare at a candle for an hour every day. A couple of times it began to get very interesting, blissful, and disturbing all at the same time. I need to meditate regularly, but it is harder for me than most people. It takes me about an hour instead of 20 minutes, and that is exhausting.
I used to mediation but I stopped because I didn't agree with the assumptions being made by buddhists about the nature of the self and the assumptions mediation is based. All that and I have ADHD.
Thanks, I have never tried a guided a meditation, but I have heard it works for many people.
I think a person should be able to meditate without the Buddhist assumptions. I know what you mean though. Buddhism is part of the culture and language of meditation.
(January 20, 2015 at 3:50 pm)Strider Wrote:
(January 20, 2015 at 1:04 pm)watchamadoodle Wrote: I don't think anybody has mentioned meditation yet. A year ago I was trying very hard to learn to meditate, so I would sit and stare at a candle for an hour every day. A couple of times it began to get very interesting, blissful, and disturbing all at the same time. I need to meditate regularly, but it is harder for me than most people. It takes me about an hour instead of 20 minutes, and that is exhausting.
I've been interested in meditation in the past, but I never pursued it. Give this article from The Atlantic a read. It explores a side of meditation that is never mentioned. I found it rather disturbing. I doubt it's very common, but you never hear about potential negative outcomes from meditating.
It's kind of like anything could come out once meditation opens the door to the deep mind.
Thanks, that's an interesting article. I wasn't aware of those psychological problems that can be caused by meditation. I've read posts from people on other forums who alluded to these types of difficulties, so I know it happens.
It's very hard for me to experience a tiny bit of quiet in my mind through meditation, so the risks for me are minimal. After the first "good" meditation session, I felt very disconnected from myself afterwards. I've also noticed a mild psychedelic drug-like effect sometimes after I meditate. So I can see how there is risk - especially for more talented meditators.
RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 21, 2015 at 8:53 am (This post was last modified: January 21, 2015 at 8:53 am by Faith No More.)
I haven't read this entire thread, but have we established what a religious experience is?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 21, 2015 at 8:56 am (This post was last modified: January 21, 2015 at 8:58 am by Alex K.)
(January 21, 2015 at 8:53 am)Faith No More Wrote: I haven't read this entire thread, but have we established what a religious experience is?
To quote Justice Potter Stewart,
"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that."
Ok, prize question: what was the honorable Justice originally talking about?
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 21, 2015 at 9:07 am (This post was last modified: January 21, 2015 at 9:15 am by watchamadoodle.)
(January 21, 2015 at 7:01 am)robvalue Wrote: I think there will be a strong correlation between how suggestable someone is and how many "religious experiences" they have. Also lack of critical thinking, going straight for the argument from ignorance, "What else could it have been?" And of course, the desire to have such experiences.
I'm very suggestible. When I watch movies, I can often smell aromas in the movie. For example, if somebody lights a cigarette or pipe, then I usually smell it. I am sure I would be easy to hypnotize, but I have never tried it.
Several years ago, I was depressed (as usual), and I became obsessed with UFOs. For a week or two, I spent hours reading and pondering all the classic UFO cases. Then one afternoon I looked into the sky, and there was a UFO. I watched it for a minute or two with great excitement. I ran off to get my camera, so I might see it better through the zoom lens. Then as I glanced down to adjust my camera, the UFO was gone. I reported this to MUFON, but now I suspect it might have been a hallucination in response to my obsession with UFOs. I still hope it might have been a UFO.
RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 21, 2015 at 10:55 am (This post was last modified: January 21, 2015 at 10:57 am by robvalue.)
The brain is amazing at fooling itself. I mean, it's the perfect inside man. It knows everything you know, and what buttons to push to make you believe what it wants. Of course I'm talking as if you and your brain are separate. I suppose I'm talking about the difference between all the physical stuff in the brain versus the perceived conciousness. That's about as good as I can describe it. The conciousness is at the mercy of the brain, which is why it is so unreliable.
I don't know how you could possibly define a religious experience. I would say that there's no such thing, that it is by definition an argument from ignorance. It is always going to much more likely that the person just doesn't undstand what happened than they had a unique "divine" experience. And since no one has anything divine to compare to, they are essentially making up the explanation. It's not surprising that the brain can produce images from the mythology you are familiar with.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.
I need to meditate regularly, but it is harder for me than most people. It takes me about an hour instead of 20 minutes, and that is exhausting.
