One thing I've not got my head around. One for any Christian theist.

How can Jesus be fully man and fully god. Man is limited, god unlimited. This is a straightforward logical contradiction. Without hiding behind any mysterious response how do you reconcile this?

I'm not certain about this, but I believe Jesus is not seen as "full-man" by rational standards. He was, at the very least, only half. God(self) father + human mother.

(August 8, 2010 at 6:32 pm)Skeptisma Wrote: I'm not certain about this, but I believe Jesus is not seen as "full-man" by rational standards. He was, at the very least, only half. God(self) father + human mother.

Sure but he died and was a being caught in time and space therefore was as all men are fully limited. Christians also believe he was a god. But as gods are unlimited, at least the Christian one is, then it leads to a contradiction which would disprove Christianity. I guess Christians have deveoped a sophisticated response but I have no idea what it is. I am hoping it isn't an appeal to magic, the incomprehensible etc

(August 8, 2010 at 6:44 pm)Captain Scarlet Wrote:

(August 8, 2010 at 6:32 pm)Skeptisma Wrote: I'm not certain about this, but I believe Jesus is not seen as "full-man" by rational standards. He was, at the very least, only half. God(self) father + human mother.

Sure but he died and was a being caught in time and space therefore was as all men are fully limited. Christians also believe he was a god. But as gods are unlimited, at least the Christian one is, then it leads to a contradiction which would disprove Christianity. I guess Christians have deveoped a sophisticated response but I have no idea what it is. I am hoping it isn't an appeal to magic, the incomprehensible etc

Why wouldn't it devolve into one of those sort of arguments? That's their claim to fame.

Well I guess that's what I'd like to know. If you can show something is a logical contradiction then it does not exist eh a married batchelor. Amongst a whole host of logical contradictions about gods this one in the Christian faith seems clear to me. Therefore Christ was not god and therefore christianity false. But I am intesrested into how chritstians resolve this.

(August 8, 2010 at 7:19 pm)Captain Scarlet Wrote: Well I guess that's what I'd like to know. If you can show something is a logical contradiction then it does not exist eh a married batchelor. Amongst a whole host of logical contradictions about gods this one in the Christian faith seems clear to me. Therefore Christ was not god and therefore christianity false. But I am intesrested into how chritstians resolve this.

There is nothing to resolve, Christ being fully man meant that He could physically know pain, hunger, thirst, weariness, have all the desires of a man, He could be tempted, He had all the emotions of man, the weakness of man and ect. He had to be fully man and vunerable to man's weaknesses if He was to be the ultimate sacrifice for mankind. Christ never fell to man's weakness and lived a life free of sin a Holy life without the aid of Him being fully God. How Christ could be born as a human baby is a question you will have to ask God the Father I can't answer that. I do know that He laid down His own powers when He left his Father to become our Messiah and depended upon his Father's powers to do the healing of the sick and lame, raising the dead, turning water into wine, knowing the thoughts of others and ect. One of the examples of His own powers being laid aside is the angels were with Him for His protection if He decided to call upon them, this was also His wittness to them of His love for mankind. Another reason we know He laid down His own powers is He told His disciples that He was doing the work of His Father not His own work, He prayed as man has to in order to talk to his Father. Jesus told His disciples when they asked to see the Father that they already had by seeing Him living His life before them. He told them that He and the Father are One meaning they are completely of one mind, they see all things exactly the same, they have the same exact understanding of all things. I know you are going to say once again that I'm delusional, that I need help or what ever comes to your mind but it is you who asked and all this is in the scriptures and I believe it and you do not or you would not have asked. The whole matter of christianity is about belief in Christ and having the faith to trust in Him keeping His promises to us.

(August 8, 2010 at 6:27 pm)Captain Scarlet Wrote: One thing I've not got my head around. One for any Christian theist.

How can Jesus be fully man and fully god. Man is limited, god unlimited. This is a straightforward logical contradiction. Without hiding behind any mysterious response how do you reconcile this?

This is one of the wierdest things that mystifies me as well. Jesus is himself (of course) and he is god, according to certain christians, despite the fact that he refers to himself in the first person and god many times in the second and third but never the first person.
There are even instances in the bible where he talks to god directly and he certainly makes no indication of being able to do the things god can do. According to the bible, Jesus can apparently make miracles, but he is not god.
If anything, his story paralells that of many of the mortal children of gods, though the only other example I can think of with my limited theological knowledge is Hercules, who despite being far more awesome is essentially in the same son of man and god boat as Jesus.

That's my take on it anyway.

(August 8, 2010 at 6:27 pm)Captain Scarlet Wrote: One thing I've not got my head around. One for any Christian theist.

How can Jesus be fully man and fully god. Man is limited, god unlimited. This is a straightforward logical contradiction. Without hiding behind any mysterious response how do you reconcile this?

Since when have religious fairy tales not been filled with logical contradictions? There is no way to reconcile it, there was no such thing as a divine man walking the Earth healing the blind and resurrecting the dead. Christianity or any religion whatsoever are not meant to make sense.

(August 9, 2010 at 3:19 am)DiRNiS Wrote:

(August 8, 2010 at 6:27 pm)Captain Scarlet Wrote: One thing I've not got my head around. One for any Christian theist.

How can Jesus be fully man and fully god. Man is limited, god unlimited. This is a straightforward logical contradiction. Without hiding behind any mysterious response how do you reconcile this?

Since when have religious fairy tales not been filled with logical contradictions? There is no way to reconcile it, there was no such thing as a divine man walking the Earth healing the blind and resurrecting the dead. Christianity or any religion whatsoever are not meant to make sense.

no need those either, if you are looking for a logical contradiction. Here is my favorite;
Can God Create a Stone He Cannot Lift?
never gets old!

Creating a stone that you cannot lift contradicts omnipotence's very definition... that makes no sense as an argument. It commits the loaded question fallacy because it asks "Can God create a stone?" and "Can he lift it?" in one.

It doesn't refute omnipotence.