(January 31, 2015 at 7:57 pm)Esquilax Wrote:

(January 31, 2015 at 7:51 pm)SteveII Wrote: What would be evidence of Joe the Jew having been an eyewitness? Certainly not his claiming to be. Someone else's writing? A stone carved with "Joe was here - 0029 AD"

Perhaps four people might later write that they have known for years Joe was with Jesus. They know all kinds of people who saw Joe. They believe so sincerely that Joe was there that they would be ostracized at best or persecuted for standing up for Joe and his being there. But no...according to your logic, it's not even that we say we can't be sure, we are left with "No, Joe was not there--its a conspiracy".

And if you actually knew who the writers of the four gospels were- which you don't- and they were writing from their own first hand accounts- which they weren't- and Joe had written about things that we at least knew were possible- which magic isn't- then you might have a point there. As it stands, you're overreaching hilariously.

Speaking of, have I told you about the nine hundred gospels saying Jesus was a fake?

Oh, then if we had 4 accounts from named eyewitnesses that wrote miracles happened, then you wouldn't believe them anyway. So the real problem is miracles and not really who did or did not write the narratives.

However it is logically possible, even probable that if God exists, miracles happen. We are starting from 2 different position, you have pre-judged the content according to your worldview. My worldview is open to more options--therefore not irrational to believe the events described and the subsequent events of the early church happened.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNDDDD this thread ends in presupps. So Sad.

(January 31, 2015 at 8:33 pm)SteveII Wrote: My worldview is open to more options

No, your worldview is about one thing alone.

The claim.

You believe the claim without the evidence to support it. You build arguments around an insupportable claim instead of first substantiating the claim with verifiable evidence that will then support the arguments.

Steve, I have a question - If the Christian god is the one true all mighty god, then how do you explain that the Quran preaches the exact same claim to Muslims?

(January 31, 2015 at 8:39 pm)Blackout Wrote: Steve, I have a question - If the Christian god is the one true all mighty god, then how do you explain that the Quran preaches the exact same claim to Muslims?

I'll translate here "I don't want to admit this is all I have, I like what I believe and I will not admit that is also all I have".

Same thing no matter which religion they argue. No one wants to ever consider that there is no god and humans simply make up gods and religions without realizing that is all they are doing.

(January 31, 2015 at 8:44 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(January 31, 2015 at 8:39 pm)Blackout Wrote: Steve, I have a question - If the Christian god is the one true all mighty god, then how do you explain that the Quran preaches the exact same claim to Muslims?

I'll translate here "I don't want to admit this is all I have, I like what I believe and I will not admit that is also all I have".

Same thing no matter which religion they argue. No one wants to ever consider that there is no god and humans simply make up gods and religions without realizing that is all they are doing.

I know I know, you don't need to teach me the obvious

I've found out that when theists say "you can't disprove god", instead of answering "I can't disprove dragons either", it is much more effective to reply "You can't disprove (Insert god from other religion)" - If the theist doesn't answer, he/she got the message - If he/she replies "Well of course I can disprove it" then the atheist only needs to answer "apply the same method to your god"

(January 31, 2015 at 8:39 pm)Blackout Wrote: Steve, I have a question - If the Christian god is the one true all mighty god, then how do you explain that the Quran preaches the exact same claim to Muslims?

The muslims believe in the same God from the OT. They however only believe Jesus was a great prophet and not God incarnate who died and rose again. The Quran is a book on how to live. Christianity deals with atonement, a personal relationship with God etc.

And since you believe they're wrong and you're right, you can surely prove it.

Right?

(January 31, 2015 at 6:59 am)robvalue Wrote: I heard that the bible is wrong.
Hearsay is reliable evidence.
The bible is wrong.

Be careful what standards you draw, as you have to accept the consequences.

I can probably get more hearsay on this matter?

Hey, chainsaw of logic, I would like to know how you explain why the early Christians believed in the actual event of the resurrection. Don't tell me that every early adherents to a religion believe in the religion. These people believed in AN ACTUAL EVENT--not a new philosophy or some written revelation.

(January 31, 2015 at 9:05 pm)SteveII Wrote: I would like to know how you explain why the early Christians believed in the actual event of the resurrection. Don't tell me that every early adherents to a religion believe in the religion. These people believed in AN ACTUAL EVENT--not a new philosophy or some written revelation.

Hey, I can write a book with fictional character witnesses too.