I feel sorry for any otherwise good people who do bad things because a book says it's bad. If the only reason you can give for disliking homosexuality, since that's a giant topic in America, is a bible passage, then you have no good reasons. Especially if you also think stoning your child to death when he comes out to you would be a little too much. You're also ignoring the fact that slavery is illegal. It doesn't matter if some soldier grabs a kid from Afghanistan and puts him to work in the yard, or takes a virgin girl home to marry. People are going to have a problem with that, including christians who like to beat that OT verse about homosexuality over your head.

There are people who would go to your house right after a hurricane to make sure you still have power and supplies, but will kick their child out of their house for coming out as homosexual or atheist. Just because of a book.

"Child abuse"? Yeah, no. Most religious upbringing is no more abusive than is raising one's child to be atheist. Using abuse to describe a religious upbringing is stretching the term beyond its meaning.

Of course some religious parents abuse their children in programming the kids to share the parental beliefs. Some. But labeling it abuse, broadly, is not supportable.

Yeah, you're right. Thanks for pulling me back. I went a little too far out there with that one.

It's just that I'm a fairly recent de-convert and not feeling real exculpating after 40 years of having my head fucked with.

I've hammered out that point before, where I was labelling it abuse. People didn't like it because the parents may not be aware they are causing damage. In extreme cases I find that hard to believe, but I conceded the point. I guess it's just better to say that indoctrination can be harmful. I have no doubts about that.

Trying to "teach" your kid something you can't rationally explain is pretty weak though in my opinion. I mean, sometimes you just tell them not to do things until they are at an age where they can understand, but there's no such age for this.

(January 30, 2015 at 11:49 am)IanHulett Wrote: I went to church on sunday, and I felt sorry for everybody there, because all I could think of was that they were brainwashed, and were giving their money away for nothing, and that the elders wasted their entire life, and the middle aged people are wasting their life, and they're oppressing themselves, etc. I just feel so sorry for these people.

Fortunately, my girlfriend, and the pastor knows I'm an atheist, but that's it. Nobody else at church knows.

Does anybody else feel sorry for religious people?

Don't feel bad. If it's like the people at the church I attend, they are as happy or happier than you are. Most of them feel sorry for you as well. Of course we must pay the pastor and provide upkeep for the buildings, but a large percentage of the money contributed to my church goes to community service. We have weekly food and clothing give-aways and we have a dinner every Wednesday. During the other weekdays we host Narcotics Anonymous meetings and provide child care service during the meetings. It's exhilarating and fulfilling to participate in these events on a regular basis and witness changed lives. It's also a place to form lasting friendships. I wouldn't have it any other way.

(February 1, 2015 at 11:54 am)Radco Wrote: Yeah, you're right. Thanks for pulling me back. I went a little too far out there with that one.

It's just that I'm a fairly recent de-convert and not feeling real exculpating after 40 years of having my head fucked with.

I hear you. I was much more broadly antitheist when I was a new deconvert ... it wasn't hard for my feelings to run away with me at that point.

Nopers.

(February 1, 2015 at 5:54 pm)Lek Wrote: Don't feel bad. If it's like the people at the church I attend, they are as happy or happier than you are.

Sigh. And you know how happy Ian is how?

(February 1, 2015 at 5:54 pm)Lek Wrote: Most of them feel sorry for you as well. Of course we must pay the pastor and provide upkeep for the buildings, but a large percentage of the money contributed to my church goes to community service.

Glad to hear it. Sincerely. A lot of churches don't go past their own upkeep, doing what you can for the community is comendable, and one of the reasons I don't automatically categorize churches as a net economic loss (because of the tax breaks) for the community.

(February 1, 2015 at 5:54 pm)Lek Wrote: We have weekly food and clothing give-aways and we have a dinner every Wednesday. During the other weekdays we host Narcotics Anonymous meetings and provide child care service during the meetings. It's exhilarating and fulfilling to participate in these events on a regular basis and witness changed lives. It's also a place to form lasting friendships. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Churches are good at that. I attend Unitarian Universalist and get all those benefits myself without having to say I believe in something I don't.

(February 1, 2015 at 6:48 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote:

(February 1, 2015 at 11:54 am)Radco Wrote: Yeah, you're right. Thanks for pulling me back. I went a little too far out there with that one.

It's just that I'm a fairly recent de-convert and not feeling real exculpating after 40 years of having my head fucked with.

I hear you. I was much more broadly antitheist when I was a new deconvert ... it wasn't hard for my feelings to run away with me at that point.

That's one of the most important values of a forum like this, IMO. Most of us are pretty rabid until somebody points out the value of tempering that a bit. Good thing we are all suckers for a logical argument!