It doesn't seem cost effective. Just wipe them out if you have such a problem with them.

(February 18, 2015 at 1:26 am)Parkers Tan Wrote:

(February 17, 2015 at 11:27 pm)YGninja Wrote: Jesus is the way, the truth and the *life*, i never claimed to be. Don't strawman.

Read what I wrote again. I didn't say you claimed to be that. Perhaps if you knew how to read English, you could better understand the Bible you claim to follow even as you contradict it. Just a thought, y'know.

(February 17, 2015 at 11:27 pm)YGninja Wrote: Give me an example of your second claim. It seems to be you who is ignoring what it says, i gave a dozen examples of what it says, all you've given is your imagination that eternal fire = eternal life of torture, even though it would be contrary to all the passages i cited.

I'm going to remind you that I mentioned cherrry-picking for precisesly this reason. You are picking which verses you wish to pay attention to in accordance to your own beliefs, and ignoring those verses which are countervailing, and in the process denying the words of your Christ.

Hope that works out for you.

You've not produced anything 'countervailing'.

(February 18, 2015 at 12:02 am)Godschild Wrote: [...] Hell has been a reason for people to come to Christ and rightly so, it want be pleasant, love however should be the greater part of the Christians life.

If hell will keep the likes of you away from me - sign me up. If soul is immortal and can't die in hell, then I have nothing to fear there anyway. Pain is only a deterrent when it leads to bodily harm and death.

Although I know many christians who would tell you, that you're going to hell for some aspects of your particular denomination's doctrine. If you're protestant - catholics believe you're going to hell (and vice versa) just as strongly as you believe in the damnation of non-believers.

So, yeah - good luck with your gamble.

Pascals wager does kinda depend on there being only 2 options, huh? In the big scheme of things, our odds wouldn't be all that much different if one religion turned out to be right. For at least the time being, I think I'll just refrain from wagering my sanity, thank you very much!

(February 18, 2015 at 12:39 pm)The Reality Salesman Wrote: Pascals wager does kinda depend on there being only 2 options, huh? In the big scheme of things, our odds wouldn't be all that much different if one religion turned out to be right. For at least the time being, I think I'll just refrain from wagering my sanity, thank you very much!

To a dumb person everything has 50-50 chance. Flipping a coin is 50-50 - either heads or tails. Playing the lottery is 50-50 - you either win, or you don't...
Probabilities are definitely not the average person's strongest suit.

The Christians that I know (and I've asked) don't believe in hell, and think that those that do are pretty fucked up.

(February 18, 2015 at 12:58 pm)FreeTony Wrote: The Christians that I know (and I've asked) don't believe in hell, and think that those that do are pretty fucked up.

How exactly do they square that with what's in the Bible?

(February 18, 2015 at 12:58 pm)FreeTony Wrote: The Christians that I know (and I've asked) don't believe in hell, and think that those that do are pretty fucked up.

"Well, then - they're not real Chrishchuns, but heretics and they will join non-believers in eternal punishment.

CG"

Or some such nonsense.

(February 18, 2015 at 1:00 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(February 18, 2015 at 12:58 pm)FreeTony Wrote: The Christians that I know (and I've asked) don't believe in hell, and think that those that do are pretty fucked up.

How exactly do they square that with what's in the Bible?

Let's assume that the God of the bible is a real thing and then let's try to see whether or not it would be reasonable to attribute supreme intelligence to it.

Let's assume that it's really important to this God that we find our way through this material world some day arriLet's assume that the God of the bible is a real thing and then let's try to see whether or not it would be reasonable to attribute supreme intelligence to it.

Let's assume that it's really important to this God that we find our way through this material world some day arrive in heaven. Let's assume that he'll is also a real place and, at minimum, it's not a nice place to end up.

In order to get us to heaven and avoid Hell, God writes us some directions and puts them into a book. If we follow this book correctly, then we will get to where he wants us to go.

Before attributing SUPREME intelligence, let's consider whether or not this God is intelligent by human standards.

If my son were taking a trip cross-country, and I didn't want him to get lost, I'd make him a map. Along with the map, I'd give him instructions. It's important to acknowledge that I could make a perfect map and give very perfect instructions but, if the level of instruction does not match my sons ability to comprehend it, there's still a chance he could get lost. So, to ensure that my son finds his way, I use clear and plain speech. I am very specific and succinct. I don't use any ambiguous terms and make sure he comprehends the instructions.

Example: "continue on HWY 64E for 3 miles and then take EXIT 29A toward Richmond"

If he happens to get lost, he can stop at several places along the way and confirm that the directions I've given him are correct and that he is still on the correct course.

My son will either arrive at the destination, or he'll get lost.

If he gets there it will be due to a combination of two factors.

1) My directions
2) His ability to comprehend and follow them

If my son gets lost, the same is true.

If the bible were instructions on how to get from here to heaven, and they were written by a supreme intelligence. Our ability to make it heaven or not would still depend on the same things. If we get lost, either the directions were poor or they were beyond our ability to comprehend them.
What we have with the bible is quite interesting. Some people believe they are right on track and others think the entire map is bogus. The people who believe they are on the correct course cannot even verify among one another that they've followed the directions correctly and none of them can point to any real substance in the map that would compel anyone else to join their excursion.
Given that education is so widely available and that we all share a comparable capacity for basic instruction comprehension, there isn't any reason to expect that these directions lead anywhere with any degree of certainty when you consider the disparity between the incompatible Christian interpretations alone.

Conclusion:

If God is real, he is either:

A) omniscient with a supreme intelligence but doesn't really want everyone to be able to follow his map.

Or

B) Wants us to find our way to heaven but he is an incompetent direction-giver with intelligence that is low even for modern human standards.

The most reasonable conclusion is that none of it is true, and the multitude of different maps with ambiguous instructions all containing innumerable inconsistencies is exactly what you could expect if you convinced a bunch of gullible people to follow a bunch of ridiculous and incompatible maps...