(August 19, 2010 at 3:09 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Of course God doesn't have this issue because he knows everything.

The more theists say things like 'he's' "all-knowing, "all-powerful", invisible guy in the sky the more their beliefs looks like this -


and this -


Seriously, surely you can see the child like imagination thing here. It really does look dumb, especially when a fully grown adult believes in it.
Just because saying goddidit asnwers every question, doesn't mean they are the right answers. I can answer everything with santadidit and it would have the same level of credibility. Which is none.

Who is to say that Joshua, Moses and others didn't call on the Israelites to slaughter others "in the name of" their deity any more than any other despot? Israelites were no different than any other tribal communities in that regard: it was a cutthroat world. Besides, it sounds good: it gives some sort of absolutist backing to commit such atrocities (atrocities on this scale usually do require such absolutist justifications).

They called it "Manifest Destiny" in the United States.

Quote:No, it is not evil. Whilst I would always hesitate in killing somebody, doing it for the greater good is not evil. It may be unpleasant, but that's just moral squeamishness. Equally, killing Hitler as a baby would be unpleasant, but ultimately a good act. That's my view, anyway. Clearly you and I see morality differently. Like you, I do think that moral judgements are meaningful, and that morality is more than just society's values, but I am a utilitarian. The end justifies the means. Nothing is wrong in and of itself, only in terms of its consequences.

I think I was wrong. In my opinion, its evil but in your opinion its not. I guess there is no problem of good and evil, for an atheist, just different ethics?

Quote:Are you sure? Did you ever read Todd Strasser's "The Wave", or at least watch one of the two film adaptations of the book? The American version's below, courtesy of Youtube. The German Remake is not available with english subs, though. They're all based on an experiment spurred on by a remark one student made almost exactly like the one quoted above. Needless to say, it did not end up that well.

I got suspended a couple of times for arguing with teachers, so I would doubt I would be in that class.
Although, I doubt that would be possible, from learning better to become a cult. Anyways, I see your point.

Quote:What knowledge do you posses to make that judgement OO? I don't have to believe it, it logically follows: You don't have the information to judge.

Indeed. We dont know what the conversation with God and them was like so we shouldnt judge and say, 'Look! Look! God told them to kill them!'
The Word of God has been written with a cultral perspective slant. We shouldnt jump to any conclusions...

(August 19, 2010 at 7:12 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: What knowledge do you posses to make that judgement OO? I don't have to believe it, it logically follows: You don't have the information to judge.

No, I agree. It's perfectly possible that there were good reasons for brutally slaughtering all the adults of a race and keeping the female children as sex slaves. I find it unlikely, though. What is much more likely is that it was written by primitive tribesmen. If you can deny that, then I will be surprised.

---

(August 20, 2010 at 9:20 am)solja247 Wrote: Indeed. We dont know what the conversation with God and them was like so we shouldnt judge and say, 'Look! Look! God told them to kill them!'
The Word of God has been written with a cultral perspective slant. We shouldnt jump to any conclusions...

The Bible's fairly clear about what God said: '17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man,
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.'
Numbers 31:17-18.

Yes, it was written with a cultural perspective slant... can you guess why that is?

(August 20, 2010 at 11:23 am)The Omnissiunt One Wrote:

(August 19, 2010 at 7:12 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: What knowledge do you posses to make that judgement OO? I don't have to believe it, it logically follows: You don't have the information to judge.

No, I agree. It's perfectly possible that there were good reasons for brutally slaughtering all the adults of a race and keeping the female children as sex slaves. I find it unlikely, though. What is much more likely is that it was written by primitive tribesmen. If you can deny that, then I will be surprised.

The bible was written by men and is potentially errant, yes. The repulsive stories remain as important information on the nature of God. It doesn't show God as cruel as that would be contrary to his nature and therefore logically inconsistent.

(August 21, 2010 at 6:45 am)fr0d0 Wrote:

(August 20, 2010 at 11:23 am)The Omnissiunt One Wrote:

(August 19, 2010 at 7:12 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: What knowledge do you posses to make that judgement OO? I don't have to believe it, it logically follows: You don't have the information to judge.

No, I agree. It's perfectly possible that there were good reasons for brutally slaughtering all the adults of a race and keeping the female children as sex slaves. I find it unlikely, though. What is much more likely is that it was written by primitive tribesmen. If you can deny that, then I will be surprised.

The bible was written by men and is potentially errant, yes. The repulsive stories remain as important information on the nature of God. It doesn't show God as cruel as that would be contrary to his nature and therefore logically inconsistent.

So, I take it you think that such stories don't accurately represent his nature. In which case, how do you know any of the Bible does?

(August 19, 2010 at 3:09 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Of course God doesn't have this issue because he knows everything, and therefore can judge.

Therefore: God killing = just

(that went well)

And since god will always judge what he does to be good he has an automatic 'get out of jail" card,doesn't he?

For the rest of us of course, the moral bar is set much higher.

They very accurately describe his nature which isn't cruel.

@ Zen we judge it & not God.

So, I take it you think that such stories don't accurately represent his nature. In which case, how do you know any of the Bible does?

I donot think that really anyone knows, The Omnissiunt one. For the fact soildtary that god to me has not been proven in his existance nor has jesus. So how do any of know the stories are fully true or if they verr of the story track or holds the story true..


Chicken.

(August 21, 2010 at 11:19 am)fr0d0 Wrote: They very accurately describe his nature which isn't cruel.

@ Zen we judge it & not God.

How so? You're telling me the slaughter of the Midianites was for the greater good?