(March 2, 2015 at 9:58 pm)Esquilax Wrote:

(March 2, 2015 at 9:45 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: I gave a "logical" explanation, if you didn't get it, i don't know what else to tell you.

You gave your interpretation of a bible verse, based on your specific idea of christianity, with no evidence to support the idea that this was reflective of the true original intent. As I've said before, I'm not willing to imbue you with the authority to decide what each individual verse does and does not mean; you keep answering "how?" questions with "what?" propositions, and I can't imagine it's because you don't understand the difference between the two. I think it's because you can't provide a satisfactory answer.

How do you know the way you're interpreting the bible matches with what the authors wanted? I shouldn't need to tell you why citing more bible verses isn't going to properly answer that question.

You act like I made up the interpretation, I gave you exactly what the bible stated as the interpretation, from there a little common sense is required.

(March 2, 2015 at 9:57 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(March 2, 2015 at 9:47 pm)Beccs Wrote: I'm a surgeon. I know all about the placebo effect.

That doesn't answer my question.

It' does, prayer isn't required for healing, faith is, for some people prayer helps the faith.
Like when the handkerchiefs were taken from the apostles and given to the sick, they were healed not because of the power in the handkerchiefs, but because of their FAITH in the handkerchiefs.

the placebo effect works based on the faith the patient has in the treatment, because he doesn't realize it's fake.

Actually, studies of groups of patients who knew they were being prayed for have shown that they heal more slowly than those who know they're not being prayed for.

The human mind can achieve amazing things, but I've yet to encounter anyone "healed" only by their prayers or their faiths. On the contrary, the news reports are rife with people who have died because they depended solely on prayer.

Next time you're really sick, or infected with some serious affliction, remember what you're saying here as you visit your doctor.

(March 2, 2015 at 9:59 pm)Nestor Wrote: And spiritual means illogical in your mind?

It means there is no way to discuss it logically, at some point faith just has to be enough.

(March 2, 2015 at 10:01 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: You act like I made up the interpretation, I gave you exactly what the bible stated as the interpretation, from there a little common sense is required.

Actually, I kinda do need to act like that, because in your book when the bible says "day" it can mean some other length of time, but only when you seem to want it to. In your book, you're not beholden to laws that Jesus said he wasn't here to change or revoke, because Jesus changed and revoked them. Your idea of what the bible states morphs and changes to a stunning degree, as evidenced just within this thread alone, and that's ignoring the obvious fact that you're a human being experiencing the world through subjective lenses just generally. You'll have to excuse me for wanting a little clarification from a guy who argues that the word "day" sometimes means "not a day," and you'll have to excuse me further for laughing when that same man then tells me to use some common sense.

In fact, that seems to be the most common theme of your discourse here, where you just assume your position to be so obviously true that anybody who doesn't immediately get it is simple. But you don't ever demonstrate anything you say, which makes it empty bluster.

(March 2, 2015 at 9:39 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(March 2, 2015 at 9:18 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: You are playing a word game, and yet you continue to be a ridiculous liar about it.

You have just redefined the word "heal" as something only the body can do to itself.

Well, Huggy, not gonna fucking happen here. You repeatedly attempt to make your living here redefining everything so it fits your narrative and then expect everyone to just fall in line. Get real.

look up placebo effect.

How does this in any way address anything I said?

You think this is working? Your continuous dodge of any challenge by changing the subject? You continue to prove your complete inability to defend your nonsense.

(March 2, 2015 at 8:54 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: I'm not playing word game I'm making a point.
If you possessed the power to heal, why would it matter if a body is alive or not? If the prerequisite for you to "heal" is that the patient must be alive then that shows that healing power lies within the body, not you.

You already said yesterday that your definition of "death" allows for the possibility of life. Now you're saying that healing is only relevant when life is impossible?...you're either intentionally trying to be misunderstood, or you're a moron.

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(March 2, 2015 at 10:04 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(March 2, 2015 at 9:59 pm)Nestor Wrote: And spiritual means illogical in your mind?

It means there is no way to discuss it logically, at some point faith just has to be enough.

For stupid people. And you're right...clearly it is.

(March 2, 2015 at 10:04 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: It means there is no way to discuss it logically, at some point faith just has to be enough.

And you joined an atheist forum thinking people should give a flying fuck about your moronic iron age misinterpretations because?

(March 2, 2015 at 9:03 pm)Cato Wrote: Any guesses as to whether or not the tip of her finger grew back? Just like all other amputees in the history of mankind, it hasn't.

I know this is not relevant, but apparently infants often can regenerate lost fingers. There is research to stimulate similar regeneration in adults... in case anybody cares.
http://health.howstuffworks.com/human-bo...matrix.htm

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So, Huggy, have you read about Origen? Your idea on the preexistence of souls sounds similar.

Quote:The material world, which at first had no place in this eternal spiritual progression, was due to the fall of the spirits from God, the first being the serpent, who was imprisoned in matter and body. The ultimate aim of God in the creation of matter out of nothing was not punishment, but the upraising of the fallen spirits. Man's accidental being is rooted in transitory matter, but his higher nature is formed in the image of the Creator. The soul is divided into the rational and the irrational, the latter being material and transitory, while the former, incorporeal and immaterial, possesses freedom of the will and the power to reascend to purer life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen

(March 2, 2015 at 9:39 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: I think you know what I meant by "old english"

Yes, and I notice you completely ignore my point, agreeing with you, that language changes -- and asking you what you think that implies about the interpretation of this little book we're discussing.

Hey, I can't say I blame you.

(March 2, 2015 at 9:39 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Aramaic became the language of the Jews during the Babylonian exile, only a couple of books were written in Aramaic.
Anyhow, your point is moot, because the example I gave you was Hebrew.

That is what makes the point. The fact is, the word "faith" also appears in the New Testament, which was written in Greek, so appealing to the Hebrew OT is pointless.

(March 2, 2015 at 9:39 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: That's from Strong's concordance, it IS reputable....
So you want a source discussing Bible translations of the word "faith" with the caveat of not being from a Theological site? Good luck with that one.

No. Once again, I invite you to brush up on your reading skills. I want a source discussing translations of "faith" from Hebrew to English that are done by scholars. I'm not looking for "Bible translations", because Christians are inherently untrustworthy on the topic, given their motivation to round off the uncomfortable corners that diligent scholarship puts upon their holy text.

So, you have an academic source? No? I didn't think so. You read in an echo chamber, and expect me to accept that as evidence?

Sorry, you might be a purblind fool, but I have higher standards. Do keep up.

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(March 2, 2015 at 10:18 pm)The Reality Salesman Wrote: you're either intentionally trying to be misunderstood, or you're a moron.

I'm going to go with "moron" for a true Daily Double, Alex. Bet it all.

(March 2, 2015 at 10:49 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: I'm going to go with "moron" for a true Daily Double, Alex. Bet it all.

Ahh... I'm afraid you didn't phrase your answer in the form of a question... so...