(March 3, 2015 at 1:26 pm)Chuck Wrote:

(March 3, 2015 at 12:36 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: I don't have a problem with Israelis as a whole, but the policies the country pursues are counterproductive, and I don't think we should support them financially so long as they continue to act in a manner that harms our interests.

I don't have a problem with Israelis, but I do think the insertion of the state of Israel amidst an arab world just embarking upon a trajectory of secular nationalism and modernization at the end of WWII was the largest multilateral diplomatic blunder of the 20th century after the treaties that concluded WWI. The ongoing damage it is doing stability and progress in central Euroasia won't stop until either Israel or Arabs subjugate or displace the other from a large area between the Mediterranean and Persian gulf.

Well the only good thing is as much as Fuckhu wants to sell the idea of a nuclear war, I really don't think either Saudi Arabia or Iran are stupid enough to start one. They don't want a power vacuum displacing their own power. I think Fuckhu is simply selling his fearmongering to win elections.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/fa...h-congress

(March 3, 2015 at 12:36 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: I don't have a problem with Israelis as a whole, but the policies the country pursues are counterproductive, and I don't think we should support them financially so long as they continue to act in a manner that harms our interests.

Yes, I'd say defend them when they need to be defended. But let them feel they overstepped the line when torpedoing international peace efforts by expanding the settlements and setting up kind of an Arpatheid regime.

And as always, it's not the Israelis, it's this prime minister whose only political card in the game is war. Give him more war and instability and he thrives on it like a vampire on blood. As long as the Israeli people feel threatened they will vote for him, regardless of the fact that he's constantly working on worsening the situation.

I would only defend them for short term reasons. In the long term I think they will fall if they can't achieve peace with the Arabs. I would not want western interests to suffer unnecessarily large damage when the inevitable happens if Israel continue to seek to lock in short term but unsustainable advantages that Arabs know are unsustainable and therefore need not be accepted.

(March 3, 2015 at 1:26 pm)Chuck Wrote:

(March 3, 2015 at 12:36 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: I don't have a problem with Israelis as a whole, but the policies the country pursues are counterproductive, and I don't think we should support them financially so long as they continue to act in a manner that harms our interests.

I don't have a problem with Israelis, but I do think the insertion of the state of Israel amidst an arab world just embarking upon a trajectory of secular nationalism and modernization at the end of WWII was the largest multilateral diplomatic blunder of the 20th century after the treaties that concluded WWI. The ongoing damage it is doing stability and progress in central Euroasia won't stop until either Israel or Arabs subjugate or displace the other from a large area between the Mediterranean and Persian gulf.

Knowing that the fundy bible view has always had Israel as a consolation prize to Jews as the Christian motivation to rush to the "end times" if I had been there to advise the European Jews and displaced Jews I would have said "Um guys, is that a really good idea to move there? Your so called friends the Christians are just using you to get past the velvet ropes, you are just their limo driver".

One things that jews are not is stupid. They know what the fundies are up to and take their money while laughing at them.

(March 3, 2015 at 3:28 pm)Minimalist Wrote: One things that jews are not is stupid. They know what the fundies are up to and take their money while laughing at them.

Well the biggest problem is convincing the more secular of Israel not to keep allowing race or ethnicity to replace the real elephant in the room which is religion itself. There would be no war over land if there were no Islam or Hebrew. Now since neither are going away, we can at least get more people to focus on the root cause in order to get it out of the way.

Muslims pull this bait and switch too. When you say Islam is the root cause they cop out to race or ethnicity. Neither side wants to face the root cause and use the others to avoid facing the root cause.

Between the two Israel is more westernized so they much easier to appeal to, minus Nuttyyahooo. I simply expect better of them because they are supposed to be the adults in the room. Sometimes I wonder though.

(March 3, 2015 at 3:40 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Between the two Israel is more westernized so they much easier to appeal to, minus Nuttyyahooo. I simply expect better of them because they are supposed to be the adults in the room. Sometimes I wonder though.

But you're old enough to consciously remember the 70ies and 80ies. The Palestinian movement was mostly secular, leaning to the extreme left, at that time. They closely colaborated with German and Italian leftwing terrorists. That only began to change with the first Intifada in 1987 and got a religious boost during the last one and a half decades or so. Coinciding with the rise of Al Quaeda and the ensuing wars.

So Fuckface has no plan...except to say we shouldn't negotiate. What does that leave? War?

Fine. Do it yourself if you're so eager for one.

(March 3, 2015 at 8:26 pm)Minimalist Wrote: So Fuckface has no plan...except to say we shouldn't negotiate. What does that leave? War?

Fine. Do it yourself if you're so eager for one.

Exactly.