(March 7, 2015 at 10:45 am)ChadWooters Wrote: If more recently it hasn't, then that says more about modern society than about the Holy Scriptures.

It says a lot about an evolving species. And that badly written collection of campfire tales may have been what made Europe tick (because it was violently enforced in many places), but it certainly wasn't important for the majority of the world. The chinese for example didn't know or care about something called the bible.

If the words in the bible actually changed on their own, now that would be impressive. Much more like a book a god would hand out.

(March 7, 2015 at 5:03 am)Norman Humann Wrote: What about the other billions, GC? Must I remind you the statistics? The majority of the human race doesn't believe in Yahweh. Or did your god purposely only speak to one third of all people?

Good point. And yes, God only purposely speaks to but a small fraction of all people, even as Jesus spoke in parables so that the crowds wouldn't understand Him.

Matthew 13:11 breaks it down in essence:

He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of Heaven have been given to you, and not to them."

The only way to understand the Bible or accept the message of Jesus Christ is if you've been given eyes to see and ears to hear. This is a gift from God (grace), not something achieved by the individual.

So I'm fucked, you're saying? That sounds like a good system. Sorry I wasn't arbitrarily chosen by you, God.

I have an alternative explanation: the only people who get truth from the bible are the people who have already been persuaded it is true.

(March 7, 2015 at 2:01 pm)MilesAbbott81 Wrote: And yes, God only purposely speaks to but a small fraction of all people, even as Jesus spoke in parables so that the crowds wouldn't understand Him.

Pretty good PR strategy. Make sure nobody understands you, when trying to sell your message.

I guess he thinks religious wars are funny.

(March 7, 2015 at 2:03 pm)robvalue Wrote: So I'm fucked, you're saying? That sounds like a good system. Sorry I wasn't arbitrarily chosen by you, God.

I have an alternative explanation: the only people who get truth from the bible are the people who have already been persuaded it is true.

Well, since universal salvation is the truth clearly expressed in the Bible (yet only perceived by those whom the Lord wills to perceive), no one is "fucked."

You say arbitrarily as though that is truth, yet nowhere does the Bible say that people are chosen in such a way. Look at the apostle Paul, for instance. He was a Pharisee, "blameless" by the law and persecuting Christians, even to the point of standing in approval as Stephen was martyred by stoning. The Lord chose Paul not because he was righteous, but because of his background as a Jew and enemy of Christ.

Right. Why was I not chosen then? Am I evil? Because to me, the bible looks like a book of fairy tales.

(March 7, 2015 at 2:33 pm)MilesAbbott81 Wrote:

(March 7, 2015 at 2:03 pm)robvalue Wrote: So I'm fucked, you're saying? That sounds like a good system. Sorry I wasn't arbitrarily chosen by you, God.

I have an alternative explanation: the only people who get truth from the bible are the people who have already been persuaded it is true.

Well, since universal salvation is the truth clearly expressed in the Bible (yet only perceived by those whom the Lord wills to perceive), no one is "fucked."

You say arbitrarily as though that is truth, yet nowhere does the Bible say that people are chosen in such a way. Look at the apostle Paul, for instance. He was a Pharisee, "blameless" by the law and persecuting Christians, even to the point of standing in approval as Stephen was martyred by stoning. The Lord chose Paul not because he was righteous, but because of his background as a Jew and enemy of Christ.

Yes everyone is fucked except for those who follow it. Out of the other hundreds and possibly thousands religions and cults those people wont be going to heaven because they never heard or have any idea of yaweh or jesus. Personally i gave up on my theology because it didn't make any sense because you read the bible to many times that is what is going to happen to you. By that i am going to hell since you know i turned away from the faith.

(March 7, 2015 at 2:01 pm)MilesAbbott81 Wrote: The only way to understand the Bible or accept the message of Jesus Christ is if you've been given eyes to see and ears to hear.

My ears and eyes are fine. The difference between us is that you prefer the comfort of faith whereas I would rather have the harsh reality of the truth. Faith is not about being open minded for you are accepting something as factual without the proper analysis to make an informed, unbiased decision. Doubt leads one to the truth, but suspension of the obvious truth because one prefers the comfort of the lie is what makes for blind faith.